Master Pocketwatch Thread

[Mattheous]

From one I can tell, my fob was either inspired by Victorian fobs, or an actual Victorian fob--which is very possible, as I come from a long line of Freemasons.

I can get a picture with my digital camera at some point tonight (thanks, Acid-reflux induced insomnia!).

Also, HAC: Do you have any experience with Weidi pocket watches? I know they're probably not the highest quality, but I am but a lowly Philosophy Major/Librarian-in-Training, so it's all I could afford.

[HAC]

Weidi usue a Chinese 17J movement, probably a Million Smart manual wind. Not the greatest, as you say, biggest problem I have heard with them is that the case is not prone to letting dust and pcket lint into the movement, which can result in some stoppages.. One fellow I know online said that he simply blew the junk out every once in awhile..
  Not a bad watch to start out with, all things considered, and probably a good bit less expensive than getting into vintage stuff..

Cheers
Harold

[Mattheous]

Hmmm...what would be a step up from that?

I'll post a picture of my fob when I get around to it...

How are the Calibri pocket watch movements? I have store credit at my local jewlry store (my last--and I do mean last--love dumped me after being release from an asylum...long story) and I'm picking up a watch today to see if I can use that in my handemade case.

EDIT: On second thought, I love this thing way too much to do anything to it but modify the fob...

Spoiler: ShowHide

[KatarinaNavane]

I'm getting one of my old ones fixed so I can use it! ^_^
One of the walthams
I got pics of the movements of most of 'em while at the repair place too, will post but haven't loaded 'em onto compy yet.  Walthams and Elgins have such pretty innards! 

My really old one turns out to be of British make meaning it has no serial number

[Captain Ezekiel Oakley]

So, I went into town today, and asked all the watchmakers if they have any broken/irrepairable watches. One fellow gave me this beauty:

Now, I quite like this watch. I am going to take it apart and see if I can fix it, but would like to check it's nothing nice before I take my hands to it. More pics for identification:




I think it's probably silver, as there is a hallmark... unless i'm mistaken. But it was nice, considering this cost me nothing.

(Note: It says '15 jewel' inside as well, if this helps.)

(Another Note: It also says 'Swiss made'.)

[HAC]

Nice catch.. hard to tell without seeing the movement, but the case definitely is silver. (I;m not sure on the otehr hallmarks, will have to see if I can dig them up, but the .925 indicates a solid silver case..

Its probably well worth fixing..

Cheers
Harold
 

[Ben Hudson, Esq.]

So, I went into town today, and asked all the watchmakers if they have any broken/irrepairable watches. One fellow gave me this beauty:

Now, I quite like this watch. I am going to take it apart and see if I can fix it, but would like to check it's nothing nice before I take my hands to it. More pics for identification:




I think it's probably silver, as there is a hallmark... unless i'm mistaken. But it was nice, considering this cost me nothing.

(Note: It says '15 jewel' inside as well, if this helps.)

(Another Note: It also says 'Swiss made'.)

That's damned irritating Nice find, and for free (bah!). Did you just go in and ask them? I might have a go if it's really that easy. What did you say?
It's worth a go at repairing. The case itself is certainly worth something. Could do with a closer picture of the hallmarks, but it's sterling silver, imported and assayed at London, and I think that's a 1915 date stamp (the U), but the date stamps are all fairly similar. The top mark is presumably a maker's stamp (?)

http://www.britishhallmarkingcouncil.gov.uk/publications/hallmarks2.pdf

[Jacobi]

I'm torn....I found a nice Illinois at a local antique clock shop but they want $200 for it. The owner of the shop said it is circa 1900 I'll post some pics later today. I've no idea what the going price for an antique watch is.
Sorry folks I'm a forum noob...still trying to get this figured out how to load photos.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44489165@N05/4091333806/#in/set-72157622647244471/
My second option is a Charles Hubert: http://www.charleshubertpocketwatches.com/engrave-engraved-personalized/ch_3564MASTER_Winding_Charles_Hubert_Pocket_Watch_charleshubertpocketw_.htm

I like the "Skeleton" look and the Illinois doesn't have that but I like that the Illinois is antique. That said, I'd like to stay under $200 and get a solid mechanical pocket watch. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

thanks for any advice.

Jac

***Edit Breaking this out to its own thread and I'll keep updating with the pitfalls of someone looking for their first pocket watch.
Here is the thread: http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20156.0.html

[rogue_designer]

there are great deals to be had in antique watches.

Illinois made some great watches, but $200 seems high unless it's really one of the higher grades, or in a sterling case (or unless they offer a decent warranty on the work they've done to it). They made many that wouldn't come close to that price.

I personally would avoid any of the current skelotonized movements. But that's just me.

Look for Waltham, Elgin and Illinois from 1900-1930, you should be able to find VERY good movements for well under $150. A good rule of thumb is to look for higher jewel counts. Double rollers. and at least a few adjustments (for position).

Even if an antique watch needs a bit of work (obviously, depending on how much you paid, and how much work) - there are benefits to going this route. 1. They are generally MUCH better made than their newer brethren - especially at the lower price points. 2. They actually can be repaired - many of the newer ones, it's easier to just replace the whole movement. 3. They have history. 4. And this is personal - I think they are better looking.

[Cubinoid]

I have a Roamer pocket watch that my Grandparents gave me on my 18th birthday. Roamer Watches of Switzerland began in 1888, so they have a good history of making quality timepieces. They are not terribly cheap. Mine is 17 jewels, incabloc equipped, and feels heavy, but does not weigh too much in your vest pocket, and it lies flat.

If you are after quality, I cannot recommend them highly enough. You will have a watch that you will be proud of every time your man winds it before putting it on you in the morn.

Cubinoid and Tixia Loxtonian
(We make music and Victorian robot movies: and there is a defunct watch I bought from Deptford market for £1 in this video, if you look very carefully...)
http://tinyurl.com/mothbanduk
Steampunk Tree Snow

[BaronAdhemar]

Recent acquisitions...

Faces:


Covers:


Backs:


Movements:


The fist one, the Elgin with the pretty face, while sold as working is alas, not. It will tick a couple times, then stop again. I'm *hoping* a good cleaning will fix that, otherwise I shall be very dissapointed.

The others are ticking over like champs, and warming the cockles of my heart. 

[Zwack]

I have a similar one to the "one with the pretty face" and it works very nicely now.    It too needed a cleaning, but as I bought it because I liked the face it was a good buy.

Z.

[BaronAdhemar]

Well, I paid more for it that I would have for a watch listed as non-working, so I'm a bit annoyed  , but I'm hoping the cleaning will do the trick.

[Ben Hudson, Esq.]

From what I've seen of many sale listings, the wording can be very ambiguous regarding what equals 'working'.

[KatarinaNavane]

I'm torn....I found a nice Illinois at a local antique clock shop but they want $200 for it. The owner of the shop said it is circa 1900 I'll post some pics later today. I've no idea what the going price for an antique watch is.
Sorry folks I'm a forum noob...still trying to get this figured out how to load photos.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44489165@N05/4091333806/#in/set-72157622647244471/
My second option is a Charles Hubert: http://www.charleshubertpocketwatches.com/engrave-engraved-personalized/ch_3564MASTER_Winding_Charles_Hubert_Pocket_Watch_charleshubertpocketw_.htm

I like the "Skeleton" look and the Illinois doesn't have that but I like that the Illinois is antique. That said, I'd like to stay under $200 and get a solid mechanical pocket watch. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

thanks for any advice.

Jac

***Edit Breaking this out to its own thread and I'll keep updating with the pitfalls of someone looking for their first pocket watch.
Here is the thread: http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20156.0.html

The charles hubert ones have crappy chinese movements, but they do honour their lifetime warranty so when (not if) it does stop working they'll fix it for the a mere $6 shipping and handling.
I've got one of those, and am currently having one of my old walthams fixed.

[HAC]

Heh.. they don't "fix" it, they replace the movement (or teh watch) its cheaper than repairing.. Chinese movements aren't bad per se, but their quality control really really sucks. I have seen Chinese movements with fingerprints on the plates, and more than once, with eyelashs or hair in them.
  Having said that the Chinese CAN do a good job, if one is willing to pay a bit more. I have seen a Chinese copy of a Unitas 6497, that was almost as good as the Swiss original, but at less than half the price. (there was also a "budget" $12.00 Chinese 6497 copy that took about $75.00 worth of dissasembly, cleaning, lubing and re-assembly to make it decent. After that it was fine..

Cheers
Harold

[Gurvan]

Hello,

Just thought that I should mention this : http://www.journaux.fr/revue.php?id=145776&collec=1 here...

In France, but I suppose that this is the same in many other countries, there is a new tendance since a few years to start selling Encyclopedias through normal press vendors. This one which is just starting is about Pocketwatches... Those are of course replicas which are probably mass produced in some far east country and they are probably not worth much but I thought that they could be of interest to some of you. Supposedly this encyclopedia will cover pocket watches of all times and try to retrace their history and so on. Typically, the price starts low and they raise after sometime. Typically also, you can subscribe and have them delivered to your mailboxes. But I guess that this might be expensive for overseas order.

I know that they do have a website but I have not been able to find it ! Oops... 

[Stewart Starbuck]

A watch I recently inherited:




As you can see, it's in a bad state. It's got a few dents in it, missing most of its hands, glass and key.

From the research I've done the hallmarks indicate Sterling Silver made in Chester. I can't identify the maker, but it has the initials J.H, and I'm unsure about the year - The chart below indicates a few possible years, but I believe 1889 is the closest match. (Note the capital F in a square box appears numerous times.)

http://www.925-1000.com/dlc_chester.html

I'm unsure if I should have it restored or not (I'm guessing it will end up being very expensive), but any suggestions are welcome.

[Zwack]

Restoration/repair costs will vary depending on how much work the watchmaker has to do. 

Keys are usually standard sizes and a bunch of 13 or so can be had relatively cheaply. 

Hands might require some work on the part of the watchmaker to be fitted, depending on how they attach, but again probably aren't too expensive.  The crystal is probably available, and again doesn't cost too much.  (I've had all of these things done to watches and none of them were excessively expensive). 

Where it might get expensive is the condition of the movement.  If all it requires is a clean and lube then (I'll be very surprised) it won't be too expensive.  Given the state of the hands I suspect that at some point the spring unwound completely without any moderating influence (I've had this happen, and the hands looked like yours afterward).  This probably means that a part needs replaced and it might need to be made from scratch. 

Having said all of that, I think that you should get it repaired...  or at least find out how much it might cost, and decide from there.

Z.

[Morkl]

What I'm looking for in a watch is:

* Time keeping, reliability:
I'm looking for watch to use as my primary time keeping device for daily wear. Five minutes (5m is a lot, isn't it? I guess i should aim higher (that is, lower)) a week would be an absolute maximum, lower is very preferable.
I guess pretty much any railroad grade watch would cut it as long as it is recently serviced/cleaned, correct?

* Age:
I am a fan of the workmanship of times passed, but I'm not looking to buy a watch just because it's old if it can't keep time...

* Looks:
I want a silver or silvery (nickel, steel, etc) case. I want it to look clean and elegant, nothing flashy. Open face.
This is a minor concern, however, as acquiring a suitable case on its own and switching would be easier than finding the right movement in the right case - right?

So, what would a fair price be for a (recently serviced) good running railroad grade movement sans case?

24 hour dial would be a huge plus; I've always been annoyed with how most watches don't actually show me what time of day it is (this is an actual problem during the dark half of the year: crazy sleep schedule and <6 hours of daylight mean i go days without sunlight sometimes).

The only 24 hour movement I've found out about is the Hamilton 4992b, what others are there?
I have read about 4992b's being converted to 12 hours - how about the opposite?

[HAC]

Any "railroad approved" pocket watch (in good condition, of course), is a great choice for a good timekeeper. The original specification for railroad use called for timekeeping to be within a 30 second per week variance.
As for the 4992B. the 4992B is a modification of the 992B movement, and was used in military pocket watches.The 4992b was never approved for railroad use, even though it was based on the apporved 992b movement.
  Most common of the 4992b's are the "GCT" (Greenwich Civil Time" models whiche are treu 24 hour movements, and incorporate a centre-seconds modification as well. Elgin also produced a 24 hour "GCT" version of the B.W.Raymond RR watch movement.

Hamilton "GCT"



One other option might be to look for a railroad watch wih the so called "Canadian" dial, which has an inner 24 hour chapter.
Here's my 992b.. (and this one I actually used in railroad service)


Hope that helps..
Cheers
Harold

[Zwack]

Five minutes a week is not all that accurate.  None of my Elgins are railroad grade and they all manage better than that (probably about a minute a week at the worst, I've never actually checked the accuracy for exact values)

Z

[Morkl]

Thank you for your answers.

Five minutes a week is not all that accurate.  None of my Elgins are railroad grade and they all manage better than that (probably about a minute a week at the worst, I've never actually checked the accuracy for exact values)

Z

That's great! I've heard about watches dropping a minute a more a day, but perhaps those were just poorly regulated and/or dirty. A minute a week would be well within my tolerances.

Any "railroad approved" pocket watch (in good condition, of course), is a great choice for a good timekeeper. The original specification for railroad use called for timekeeping to be within a 30 second per week variance.
As for the 4992B. the 4992B is a modification of the 992B movement, and was used in military pocket watches.The 4992b was never approved for railroad use, even though it was based on the apporved 992b movement.
  Most common of the 4992b's are the "GCT" (Greenwich Civil Time" models whiche are treu 24 hour movements, and incorporate a centre-seconds modification as well. Elgin also produced a 24 hour "GCT" version of the B.W.Raymond RR watch movement.

Hamilton "GCT"



One other option might be to look for a railroad watch wih the so called "Canadian" dial, which has an inner 24 hour chapter.
Here's my 992b.. (and this one I actually used in railroad service)


Hope that helps..
Cheers
Harold

Yes, the GCT is probably the only watch with true 24 hour dial I have seen. The reason I am interested in them is that they actually show whether it's AM or PM (not always obvious in the godless north of Sweden ). I also happen to like the GCT cases, except the military markings they all (?) seem to have.

24hr is just a plus though, not a requirement, so I might very well go for a 992b or other railroad watch. I guess I'll just have to wait and keep my eyes open until the right watch comes along...

(The only right thing to do is of course to buy both a 24 hr one and a standard one, but I have to afford stupid things like rent and food as well )

[HAC]

Five minutes a week is not all that accurate.  None of my Elgins are railroad grade and they all manage better than that (probably about a minute a week at the worst, I've never actually checked the accuracy for exact values)

Z

Accuracy (or more correctly, precision) was only one of the railroad spec components. The idea was to create a watch that was reliable, readable, and was capable of consistent accuracy.  The RR movements tended to be better finished, and much more care was taken when assembling (ie, balances were poised, there were adjustments to 6 positions, temperature, and more importantly isochronism etc). I have a  9J Elgin that is quite accurate on a measured daily rate, but not so much when used over a few weeks..
My 992b runs measured to +11 seconds per week, consistently.

Cheers
Harold

[Ben Hudson, Esq.]

Five minutes a week is not all that accurate.  None of my Elgins are railroad grade and they all manage better than that (probably about a minute a week at the worst, I've never actually checked the accuracy for exact values)

Z

Accuracy (or more correctly, precision) was only one of the railroad spec components. The idea was to create a watch that was reliable, readable, and was capable of consistent accuracy.  The RR movements tended to be better finished, and much more care was taken when assembling (ie, balances were poised, there were adjustments to 6 positions, temperature, and more importantly isochronism etc). I have a  9J Elgin that is quite accurate on a measured daily rate, but not so much when used over a few weeks..
My 992b runs measured to +11 seconds per week, consistently.

Cheers
Harold

If it's consistently +11, could you not very slightly adjust it, or is that small a variance beyond adjustment?