steampunk as subculture

[Tinkergirl]

Cory, believe me, 99.99% of us don't belive that in the slightest, and the opinions of individual members of the Steampunk Forum here, shouldn't be seen as anything more than just that - individual opinions.

Personally, I think you're definitely one of the most Steampunk people around - though, to be quite frank, there's so many now popping out of the woodwork I fear for my own Steampunishness.  *laughs*  You're quite safe though.

[kiskolou]

Respectful, eccentric, quietly dissident attitude that kiskolou was talking about.
Long live anachronism!

That was exactly what i was going for. Thank you.

[Jake of All Trades]

Cory, believe me, 99.99% of us don't belive that in the slightest, and the opinions of individual members of the Steampunk Forum here, shouldn't be seen as anything more than just that - individual opinions.

Personally, I think you're definitely one of the most Steampunk people around - though, to be quite frank, there's so many now popping out of the woodwork I fear for my own Steampunishness.  *laughs*  You're quite safe though.

That's exactly what I was going for!  Shocking that we agreed on something    Please, Cory, don't leave us!  I think you're being far too critical of yourself...

And no, I wish not to duel with Cory--I'd much rather make a weapon than use one 

[Dreamsmith]

Me?
Well, I still stand when a lady enters the room (though, for some reason, I've been chided for it) I open doors for them, when polite, and I refuse a seat when there will be a lady forced to stand. (except when prevented from doing so for medical reasons [crushed vertebre, stab wound to the leg, and shattered shin have all be reasons in the past])
I carry a pocketwatch, it's wind up, silver and bras, with visible clockwork.
I respect and listen to my elders. One of the best friends I ever had, God rest him, was a 90 year old man, me 16 at the time. He had stories to tell. Real ones. It was better than television ever could be.
I'd rather read than watch a film, write with a pen on a piece of paper than send an email, and I'd rather look into your eyes and shake your hand than speak down a telephone.
I dress decently. I try to look clean, even if I am a little more bearded than is fashionable.
I've been told I talk funny, I say "sir" and "ma'am" and "myself as well" instead of "me too."
I work on old clocks, but I'm not very good at it.

I Rebel by being a decent, polite, and educated Young Man (if I do say so myself...) at least, I try to be.

And I build things from other, broken things, that I find or buy.

I may be a little crazy.

Whats my point?

Oh, yes. Anyway, I think that I classify myself as a steampunk with some diesel influences, lately, (I do so love to catagorize myself), and, if I am "Steam" then living the way i do, is what being a punk is all about, for me, personally, myself.

I fully expect it to be different for everyone.

But, then again, I may be wrong.


Your Humble
--Dreamsmith

P.S. I never started this :gestures grandly: with the idea of becoming part of a specific sub-culture. I just did it, and was happy to find like minded individuals to chat with. I don't think that makes the kind of sense that i want it to, but I cant word any of the previous message any better. Believe me, I've tried.

[Fantômas]

Me?
Well, I still stand when a lady enters the room (though, for some reason, I've been chided for it) I open doors for them, when polite, and I refuse a seat when there will be a lady forced to stand. (except when prevented from doing so for medical reasons [crushed vertebre, stab wound to the leg, and shattered shin have all be reasons in the past])
I carry a pocketwatch, it's wind up, silver and bras, with visible clockwork.
I respect and listen to my elders. One of the best friends I ever had, God rest him, was a 90 year old man, me 16 at the time. He had stories to tell. Real ones. It was better than television ever could be.
I'd rather read than watch a film, write with a pen on a piece of paper than send an email, and I'd rather look into your eyes and shake your hand than speak down a telephone.
I dress decently. I try to look clean, even if I am a little more bearded than is fashionable.
I've been told I talk funny, I say "sir" and "ma'am" and "myself as well" instead of "me too."
I work on old clocks, but I'm not very good at it.

I Rebel by being a decent, polite, and educated Young Man (if I do say so myself...) at least, I try to be.

And I build things from other, broken things, that I find or buy.

I may be a little crazy.

Whats my point?

Oh, yes. Anyway, I think that I classify myself as a steampunk with some diesel influences, lately, (I do so love to catagorize myself), and, if I am "Steam" then living the way i do, is what being a punk is all about, for me, personally, myself.

I fully expect it to be different for everyone.

But, then again, I may be wrong.


Your Humble
--Dreamsmith

P.S. I never started this :gestures grandly: with the idea of becoming part of a specific sub-culture. I just did it, and was happy to find like minded individuals to chat with. I don't think that makes the kind of sense that i want it to, but I cant word any of the previous message any better. Believe me, I've tried.

I wanted to say this same thing but it just wasn't coming out quite right. It doesn't completely encapsulate my views but it deffinately encompasses a large part of them.

I think there is something to this "rebelling by not being rebellious"..

Perhaps we can culturally sabotage some cultural saboteurs while were at it.

I suppose what I am saying is that I support this view, and it's a damn site rarer than rudeness, a lacking in ethical character, and a rejection of dignity.

*good show*

~Ike

[Dreamsmith]

Thank you for the support, Kind Sir.

In all honesty, it comes as a relief. For some reason, I was harbouring great fear that my vies would be opposed, and derided.

I am happy to see that I feared for naught, Patasapien.

As I mentioned in the end of my post script, and as you so eloquently said in a far clearer fashion, I wasn't able to find the words to say all I wanted to, there is more that while my heart may understand, my mind cannot put words to.

Anywho, I feel that i am rambling, and I find myself longing for bed after a long 48 hours without seeing it. So, It's goodnight for me. I'll be back tomorrow.

Again, thank you.

Your Humble
--Dreamsmith

[Mercury Wells]

My fellow colleagues.

After musing for some time, using my Elektro-powered Combined Thought condenser and Smoking Cap.


For I may have found a solution to our woes. Would one might be so bold as to suggest using of the term "Steamers" as a cover-all of all genres of Steampunk

[Jake von Slatt]

My fellow colleagues.

After musing for some time, using my Elektro-powered Combined Thought condenser and Smoking Cap.


For I may have found a solution to our woes. Would one might be so bold as to suggest using of the term "Steamers" as a cover-all of all genres of Steampunk

Ah, I do fear Mr. Wells that "Steamers" is taken.  I have the privilege of growing up near where some of the first mass production steam powered car were made, the Stanley Steamer, and there are a lot of groups and vehicles here refferred to as "Steamers".  Not to mention that, this being the New England seacoast, "steamers" is also also used to describe steamed clams.

I'm happy with being a Teslarian Contraptor, myself!

[Honky-Tonk Dragon]

I applaud the fine individuals who are placing an emphasis on civility and etiquette.
Personally, I am finding the discussions here and in the "steampunk isn't punk" thread, quite interesting, though I hope we can all keep that aforementioned emphasis in mind.
There will be times when we as refined adults will be forced to "agree to disagree."

Still at the core, I think much of the contention is of semantics, though there are some insecurities.
I have them myself. I am not a maker. But I applaud the DIY folks, and hope to derive some inspiration and education from them.

Were I to ever have full steampunk drag, I'm sure it would cobbled together from store bought items, things purchased directly from fine artisans, and things I will have scavenged, made, or modified myself...
Actually, thinking about it I could come pretty close now, as some of these kinds of items have been integrated into my lifestyle for sometime.
It is only recently that I have begun to think of them as steampunk, even though eons ago I used to sport a brocade waistcoat I'd made myself when I went out to the punk club...

Another thought about steampunk as subculture... Has anyone read Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age?
Not exactly steampunk, though there is an interesting frisson of steampunk and cyberpunk elements. I bring it up, however for the element of Phyles. Stephenson takes the cyberpunk concept of corporations becoming more important than nations, and runs with it, turns it on culture. Phyles are like cultures, or subcultures, without borders. There is even a Neo-Victorian one.
This is somewhat how I see steampunk "culture," at least at this point. I'd wager most of us on this board have seen precious few other steampunks in the flesh. In my area, there are no steampunk establishments, or gatherings. (Although, if I crawled out of my den and made it to Portland or Seattle more often, I might find something.)
But I do feel a sense of camaraderie with the fine gentles on this board. My exposure to a lot of these topics has been catch as catch can, so I'm learning a lot from the company here. Even when I find myself on a particular pole of some debate's dichotomy, generally details are the points of contention, and I have the utmost respect not only for the opponent's aesthetic, but for their passion for it.

Thank you for your indulgence, this rant is completed.

[fmra]

How wonderfully put.

[kiskolou]

There will be times when we as refined adults will be forced to "agree to disagree."

Not everyone here is an adult, but the point still stands

[Dreamsmith]

My thought is this:

By attempting to rigidly define steampunk as a culture (or indeed, doing so to any lifestyle) merely promotes elitism.

In my humble opinion, it will merely cause those who feel that they are "True Steampunks" and they will call others, as worded by whoever said so about Sir Datamancer, "not steampunk enough."

It is all well and good to have your own definition of steampunk and what it entails, it is even nice to share it with us. I, at least, am interested in hearing everyones view.

But, while forcing a specific view onto someone else is very Victorian, it is not very gentlemanly, nor is it sporting.

So, as said by those before me, we may just have to agree to disagree.

Indeed, it mayhap that that is the only solution that is workable in the long run.

To say it simply, though, Let the culture define itself. Cultures are good at letting that happen, and it will happen, in time.

Now that parts of my view have been stated on two separate occasions...
:Dons flame-retardant suit:
Let's hear yours!

Your faithful servant
--Dreamsmith

[Honky-Tonk Dragon]

How about steampunk as community?

[kiskolou]

Community is more warm and fuzzy...but id say that it is the more correct word.

[Dreamsmith]

Oh, indeed. I feel we are already on our way toward forming a very healthy community, in as much as a community can be one without living in close approximation to one another.
It would seem that we have our leaders, our celebrities, our debaters, scholars, philosophers, commentarist, troublemakers, etc. We have more than our share of Artist, it would seem, in a variety of mediums.
Our Steampunk Society is rich with members to fill all the above niches. And we intereact in what is mostly a pleasing and smooth-running fashion.
I find the steampunk community to be highly educated, helping, and, basically, just a blast to hang out with. Trust me, if you all weren't good conversation, I'd have hit the road long ago. I'm here for the interaction. And, isn't that what community is all about?

Garrg... the wording above doesn't quite feel right...

Am I making sense? Like, good sense?

[Josh of Vernian Process]

Ok as much as I was opposed to the idea of a Steampunk subculture, I think a Steampunk Community is perfect.

Though I really don't know if we need leaders persay? I mean we are all just hanging out online chatting and sharing ideas. Maybe you could say that those of us that have been into this genre for a long time could be considered mentors?? I just don't like using a word like leader or elder. It denotes some kind of superiority, which I for one don't seek here.

[Dreamsmith]

Exactly! Thank you VernianProcess, Mentors does fit much better.

I am a full supporter of a Steampunk Community. I think that it is a marvelous thing.

That said, though, I have nothing against it as a culture, if it develops that way. Right now, The genre is still to new to have a set-universal definition, if ever it will. And trying to force one is bad business.

Community though, Community is what we are. And it is a good thing.

...In my humble opinion.

Yours,
--the Dreamsmith

[Josh of Vernian Process]

Once again... Culture is fine, Subculture is not.

Because if we are a subculture, than what are we a part of? Science Fiction?? That's too broad.

By saying steampunk culture, it leaves it pretty open to interpretation.

[Dreamsmith]

Once again... Culture is fine, Subculture is not.

Because if we are a subculture, than what are we a part of? Science Fiction?? That's too broad.

By saying steampunk culture, it leaves it pretty open to interpretation.

Ah, I think I get it (finally) You are saying that, to call it a subculture, we would have to be defined by the larger culture as well. Or something similar. We would be an off-shoot of the Primary Culture.
We can't go sci-fi, cause that doesn't exactly fit, and to suggest that we are an offshoot of punk opens up a rather large can of rather nasty worms.

Still, my own view (which I've stated a thousand times, and would never force on anyone else) is that, yes, we are independent from the Punk and SciFi "cultures," even if we do occasionally draw inspiration from them. However, as independent as we are, at best we are a proto-culture. We are a culture still developing its morals, mores, and values.

So, that said, I think that you can attempt to live a steam-lifestyle (I actually applaud those of you who do) I even think that we can participate in a Steampunk community (as we are) but I am uncertain as to whether or not we have a fully defined "culture"

But, I'd be the first to say that I may be wrong.
After all, I am a new kid on the block.

Thank you, Kind Sirs and Madams, for your time.

Your humble
--Dreamsmith

[Honky-Tonk Dragon]

Well, Huzzah!!


I'd say we have community, though still young.
The culture is still forming. Perhaps culture takes longer to mature than community, since it seems some aspects in the development of a culture are dependant on having a community that is mature enough to nurture it.
Just a theory.

[Tinkergirl]

I wholeheartedly agree - the Steampunk Community is alive and well

It would seem that we have our leaders, our celebrities, our debaters, scholars, philosophers, commentarist, troublemakers, etc. We have more than our share of Artist, it would seem...

And more important than all of those put together, we have everyone else who may not leap into the stagelights - every member here and on all the other forums and sites out there, even if they seldom say anything.

I notice we have no chefs though - surely we must be a very hungry community by now... *chuckles*

[fmra]

I have robot slaves to do my cooking...  seriously though, isn't this what I was saying about an emergent culture earlier?

[Mercury Wells]

My fellow colleagues.

After musing for some time, using my Elektro-powered Combined Thought condenser and Smoking Cap.


For I may have found a solution to our woes. Would one might be so bold as to suggest using of the term "Steamers" as a cover-all of all genres of Steampunk

Ah, I do fear Mr. Wells that "Steamers" is taken.  I have the privilege of growing up near where some of the first mass production steam powered car were made, the Stanley Steamer, and there are a lot of groups and vehicles here refferred to as "Steamers".  Not to mention that, this being the New England seacoast, "steamers" is also also used to describe steamed clams.

I'm happy with being a Teslarian Contraptor, myself!

Thank you to VonSlatt for correcting me, with his very consice infomation 

[Honky-Tonk Dragon]

I wholeheartedly agree - the Steampunk Community is alive and well

It would seem that we have our leaders, our celebrities, our debaters, scholars, philosophers, commentarist, troublemakers, etc. We have more than our share of Artist, it would seem...

And more important than all of those put together, we have everyone else who may not leap into the stagelights - every member here and on all the other forums and sites out there, even if they seldom say anything.

I notice we have no chefs though - surely we must be a very hungry community by now... *chuckles*

I bet they are out there somewhere...
perhaps it deserves a thread?

[Mercury Wells]

I think that we could be asking is:- Does Steampunk make us or do we make Steampunk?