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The Brassgoggles Model Making Club (the second non-SP model making thread).

Started by James Harrison, April 28, 2019, 05:13:51 PM

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The Bullet

Taigatrommel:

New controller installed.
Had to weld up a new offset battery tray.
Test run tomorrow.
No more test runs at night.... (you know why).

If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

Madasasteamfish

Well having bought the kits for a shark ballast plough, and 2 turbot wagons off a well known internet auction site, I'll have the beginnings of my own Permanent Way train, which I reckon would look good behind my 4F.

I'm slightly annoyed that I missed out on the Mermaids that the same seller was offering, but I suppose I'll just have to keep an eye out for any suitable models to expand it.
I made a note in my diary on the way over here. Simply says; "Bugger!"

"DON'T THINK OF IT AS DYING, JUST THINK OF IT AS LEAVING EARLY TO AVOID THE RUSH."

Madasasteamfish

Quote from: Madasasteamfish on June 10, 2019, 07:55:28 AM
Well having bought the kits for a shark ballast plough, and 2 turbot wagons off a well known internet auction site, I'll have the beginnings of my own Permanent Way train, which I reckon would look good behind my 4F.


Well a bit of post purchase Google fu has led to that plan being shelved as it turns out that the boys weren't built until the 1980s, well after my preferred modelling era (let this be a lesson to you all boys and girls). But I'm determined to salvage something from the situation.

The shark is still an appropriate wagon, I just need some different ballast wagons. And the turbots will prove a useful test ground for quality as I've been put off ordering anything from the manufacturers before due to the level of 'anorak-ism' needed to satisfactorily navigate their website.
I made a note in my diary on the way over here. Simply says; "Bugger!"

"DON'T THINK OF IT AS DYING, JUST THINK OF IT AS LEAVING EARLY TO AVOID THE RUSH."

James Harrison

Persons intending to travel by open carriage should select a seat with their backs to the engine, by which means they will avoid the ashes emitted therefrom, that in travelling generally, but particularly through the tunnels, prove a great annoyance; the carriage farthest from the engine will in consequence be found the most desirable.

The Bullet

Taigatrommel runs.....at last.

Had a problem with the controller.
It would only go backwards.
The controller has one input to activate reverse mode.
I have two wires for direction:
+12V on yellow for forward, +12V on grey for backwards.
Somehow when forward was selected, gray wire took about 5 seconds to run up to 12 V  so I suspected a leakage current and a capacitor charging.
This happened also with the controller unplugged.
Then I had the solution.
The handset has a dual-colour common cathode LED, green for forward, red for reverse. The leakage current was enough to put the controller in reverse.
I added two 1N4001 to the anodes and the problem was solved. Just to be sure I added a 10k pulldown to the reverse input.
Before installing the 4QD controller I had a non-reversing homebrew controller and some relays to switch the direction.
Their coils did not react to the few milliamps leakage current.

Problem solved.
Even more power when starting up.
Real four-quadrant operation. I can also brake using the motors.
Did some "hot" starts and stops. The heatsink did not get warm at all.


If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

Madasasteamfish

Quote from: James Harrison on June 10, 2019, 07:25:14 PM
May be of use for you? https://www.cambrianmodelrail.co.uk/store/BR-Engineering-c25015111

Otherwise, the Hornby hopper wagon can be converted to something earlier...

That's the website I meant. I've never bought any cambrian kits before now simply because they seem to assume a certain level of knowledge about wagon design and classification which is well above my own casual level of interest.

Depending on how the kits go together I might see about ordering a few Catfish/dogfish wagons at a later date.
I made a note in my diary on the way over here. Simply says; "Bugger!"

"DON'T THINK OF IT AS DYING, JUST THINK OF IT AS LEAVING EARLY TO AVOID THE RUSH."

The Bullet

Lion puzzle arrived.

I seem to have received more value for the money than expected.
Many things are made.
Safety valves, motion, regulator,....

Will take some time to find out what goes where.
First step is to find a set of plans.

















If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

Banfili

Quote from: The Bullet on June 11, 2019, 07:51:54 PM
Lion puzzle arrived.

I seem to have received more value for the money than expected.
Many things are made.
Safety valves, motion, regulator,....

Will take some time to find out what goes where.
First step is to find a set of plans.

That is a sweet little engine - very primitive looking, but remarkable engineering. Good luck with it!

The Bullet

Spent some more hours in the engine room of the Taigatrommel.

After talking to the folks at 4QD (really helpful lot) I got a confirmation that in very rare cases pushing the loco at high speed when not running under its own power could damage the controller. Precautions have been taken in the design but there is a very slight chance.

Pushing the loco causes the motors to act as generators. This effect is really strong with these huge permanent magnet motors and as the controller protection circuit just shorts this voltage the loco is hard to push.
So I installed a cutoff switch. Huge thing, 1000A peak current, 500A continuous. It will never be switched under load.

Now the loco is easy to push and the controller is protected.
Will test in a few days.

Lion is spread out on the workbench. I am digging through the boxes and identifying part by part. Time to take it apart, clean everything and start putting the bits together.
If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

Mercury Wells

Quote from: The Bullet on June 14, 2019, 08:05:42 PM
Spent some more hours in the engine room of the Taigatrommel.

After talking to the folks at 4QD (really helpful lot) I got a confirmation that in very rare cases pushing the loco at high speed when not running under its own power could damage the controller. Precautions have been taken in the design but there is a very slight chance.

Pushing the loco causes the motors to act as generators. This effect is really strong with these huge permanent magnet motors and as the controller protection circuit just shorts this voltage the loco is hard to push.
So I installed a cutoff switch. Huge thing, 1000A peak current, 500A continuous. It will never be switched under load.

Now the loco is easy to push and the controller is protected.
Will test in a few days.

Lion is spread out on the workbench. I am digging through the boxes and identifying part by part. Time to take it apart, clean everything and start putting the bits together.

As always, please take photographs & a written summery at every stage.  :)
Oh...my old war wound? I got that at The Battle of Dorking. Very nasty affair that was, I can tell you.

The Ministry of Tea respectfully advises you to drink one cup of tea day...for that +5 Moral Fibre stat.

The Bullet

Nuts&Bolts, Grease&Rust,....Disassembly has begun.

I got the wheelsets out. The front wheelset can only be removed after removing the crossheads and slidebars or...the whole cylinder block.
Much work must have gone into making this model as every part of the motion is precisely made. The attention to detail is fascinating.
Got the pistons out. Bores look good, seals (or the sad remains of them) were given the wire-brush removal treatment.
Now I have hit a problem. A typical German problem:
Imperial nuts&bolts are not available here and I have no idea of the correct size description. (I do not have the plans yet)
The bolts (threaded rods)  keeping the cylinder covers in place have en outer diameter of 3.6 mm.
I need a handful of nuts. Can anyone guess the right size?
I found some sizes on Fleabay UK.
Imperial spanners (BA and fractions) are there. I also have a drawer of leftovers from other projects but I do not think this will get me far enough.

Some pics:








Pistons and rings also look good enough to re-install. Will use Hylomar to seal the cylinders.

Let´s see how long it takes to have an air-running chassis.
If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

James Harrison

This might be useful for you?

https://www.gfii.com/images/Greenfield_Decimal_Equivalents.pdf

Yesterday, I went to Loughborough to the GCR's model event.  I came home with a haul of stuff, mostly laser-cut model buildings and a little bag of coal for the planned rake of full coal wagons. 

Temeraire also got looked at this afternoon.  She now has two tripod masts, so the overall silhouette is about finished.  Now for lots of little gribbly bits and details and whatnot. 

Persons intending to travel by open carriage should select a seat with their backs to the engine, by which means they will avoid the ashes emitted therefrom, that in travelling generally, but particularly through the tunnels, prove a great annoyance; the carriage farthest from the engine will in consequence be found the most desirable.

James Harrison

Persons intending to travel by open carriage should select a seat with their backs to the engine, by which means they will avoid the ashes emitted therefrom, that in travelling generally, but particularly through the tunnels, prove a great annoyance; the carriage farthest from the engine will in consequence be found the most desirable.

The Bullet

If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

Banfili


The Bullet

Lion:
Crosshead pump will be sent over to the other department (our pump specialist) as it refuses to pump water anywhere.

Frames cleaned and fresh paint applied.

Waiting for BA nuts to arrive so I can put the pistons in, fit the caps and seal the cylinders.

Axle bearings need work as they do not slide up and down freely.

The plans have not arrived yet.

I am still trying to figure out the right sequence of installing the stuff inside the frames.

The inner frame carries the cylinder block and the crosshead slide bars.
As the axle goes into the frame from the bottom end it has to be installed before the cylinders as the slide bars are below it.
This would keep me from connecting the valve rods to the rockers as the wheels will be in the way.
*scratches head*

BTW can anyone tell me the name of the green that the original loco has on the wheels at this time?
If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

The Bullet

Railcar:

Flaps fitted. (3D printed parts)







Now the detailing of turret and barrel will be the next step.
If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

Madasasteamfish

Quote from: The Bullet on June 19, 2019, 06:53:07 AM

BTW can anyone tell me the name of the green that the original loco has on the wheels at this time?


Looks like it could be Brooklands Green. My limited knowledge says that's the likeliest as that's the closest its' possible to get to BR Brunswick Green here in the UK in any kind of serious quantity and is the preferred shade of green for a bloke at my loco model club who does some Gauge 1 stuff.
I made a note in my diary on the way over here. Simply says; "Bugger!"

"DON'T THINK OF IT AS DYING, JUST THINK OF IT AS LEAVING EARLY TO AVOID THE RUSH."

The Bullet

Lion:

painted the frames black.
Sprayed the smokebox with special high-temperature paint.
(Have to sneak into the kitchen and bake at 200°C to finish when the wife is not in).

Cleaned the cylinder block, put the 16 headless screws in that hold the valve chest.
All fits together nicely.
I am still waiting for the set of BA nuts to be delivered.
And I need an imperial/BA thread gauge.

During trial assembly of the valve chest I ran into another problem.
The exhaust pipe screws into the cylinder block. That side fits.
The valve chest cover slides over it and is held in place by the nuts on the 16 headless screws and.....a big nut on the exhaust pipe.
I have to identify this thread and find/have made a proper nut to fit this thread and carry the blower/blastpipe assembly.

Hopefully the plans will reveal the type of thread.
I do not want to buy taps/dies for a thread I only need once.
If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

The Bullet

Frames are back together now.
I pushedd the sub-frame in, pushed the screws into the holes, tightened them and....the subframe was not in line with the main frame.
The rear was centered but the front was 2cm off-centre.
One of the two angles holding it in place had two rows of holes. The builder must have made a mistake first and then corrected it. After finding and using the correct row the subframe is perfectly centered now.
Next task is filing the axle boxes to a sliding fit. Some are way too tight in the hornblocks.

Today I also found time to give the Taigatrommel another test run. It went as expected with all teething problems ironed out now.
Fitting the motor cutoff switch was a good idea as it pushes along freely now.
If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

The Bullet

Feedback from the museum:

Brunswick green.

So what is the RAL code for BS 226 mid-brunswick green?

RAL 6005 seems pretty close.
If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

James Harrison

Brunswick green can be a bit of a misnomer; for instance ask a railway enthusiast the loco livery of the Great Western Railway and they'll answer "Brunswick green" but the colour wasn't referred to as such, officially, until the 1950s. 

What we today call Brunswick green was referred to at the time as Chromium, or Mid-Chromium, green, RAL 6020.  Which is quite close to RAL 6005, but on my computer screen 6005 looks like it has more blue in it. 

It would be worth bearing in mind too that paint historically wasn't supplied pre-mixed, you'd have a pigment and carrier oil and a few ingredients with instructions to mix so much of one to so much of the other.  Then there was the human element of who mixed the paint and under what lighting conditions.  It's not unusual to find early colour photographs of locomotives in ostensibly the same colour but actually in two very distinctly different shades of it.  I suspect the only way of getting absolute accuracy in colour would be to find paint chips or samples from the original loco, which it's very unlikely even exist. 


Persons intending to travel by open carriage should select a seat with their backs to the engine, by which means they will avoid the ashes emitted therefrom, that in travelling generally, but particularly through the tunnels, prove a great annoyance; the carriage farthest from the engine will in consequence be found the most desirable.

The Bullet

That´s just my opinion.
I can only laugh about folks on another forum that argue about the RAL code of paint for a loco that was scrapped long before the RAL system even was invented.

I will choose some kind of dark green and name the loco TIGER.
Identical sister loco to LION.
They worked the same line but nothing is documented about the fate of TIGER.
There are quite many LIONs about.

Time for a TIGER, I think.
If brute force does not work....you´re not using enough of it.

James Harrison

There's a group in the UK that wants to build a replica of Tiger.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2101656160050820/

Note their idea of going for a different type of firebox, to differentiate from Lion. 

Yes, I like the idea of a 5" Tiger. 
Persons intending to travel by open carriage should select a seat with their backs to the engine, by which means they will avoid the ashes emitted therefrom, that in travelling generally, but particularly through the tunnels, prove a great annoyance; the carriage farthest from the engine will in consequence be found the most desirable.

Madasasteamfish

Well I'm not sure if Halfords exists in Germany, but as I've mentioned, their Rover Brooklands Green is a close enough match to Brunswick green to pass muster for all but the most ardent of hair shirters, and since it's available for just shy of a tenner for a 500ml aerosol can it's probably the most cost effective option for 5" gauge.
I made a note in my diary on the way over here. Simply says; "Bugger!"

"DON'T THINK OF IT AS DYING, JUST THINK OF IT AS LEAVING EARLY TO AVOID THE RUSH."