New admin needed

[Deimos]

Strangely, I like the idea of an annual membership fee. Not to stop new people from coming in, mind you. You don't want to discourage new people from perusing the boards, which even a $5 fee could do, but to have a "gate" for higher benefits in the forum, as opposed to people who only interact for one day or one week, because they saw something interesting and registered. Something akin to a "Guest and Member" hierarchy.

I'm OK with an option that allows "regulars" to pay an annual fee  (and get more perks   )

OK...so let's say we have ads.....So will my logging in be tracked IN ANY WAY by the companies who are paying BG for ad space?
Will these companies be able to see members' posts?

...
And about companies being able to read the content of your posts... They are doing that right now... Heck, the FIFA and gambling bots are doing that right now. If you look at the list of pages being accessed (when logged in, click on the "x guests y users" flag on the lower left part of the main page), and you'll see a whole bunch of "guests" reading random pages of the website, many of which are inactive pages which haven't been written on for years or even a decade. Those are bots, not people, crawling though the content of our website. Some of those bots are very smart and use AI to target and catalogue contents, such as word usage, topics, etc.

... You don't see that because you're not banning them like I do every day, as soon as I see them.

                                                                                           

[von Corax]

Strangely, I like the idea of an annual membership fee. Not to stop new people from coming in, mind you. You don't want to discourage new people from perusing the boards, which even a $5 fee could do, but to have a "gate" for higher benefits in the forum, as opposed to people who only interact for one day or one week, because they saw something interesting and registered. Something akin to a "Guest and Member" hierarchy.

I don't care for the idea, unless we could come up with some sort of "Member Plus" premium benefit. I joined on a whim, to contribute to a discussion on duelling in Queensland; had there been a registration fee I quite likely would not be here.

[von Corax]

OK...so let's say we have ads.....So will my logging in be tracked IN ANY WAY by the companies who are paying BG for ad space?
Will these companies be able to see members' posts?

Will advertisers be able to track whether you're logged in? No. Will they be able to track whether you see an advertisement, and whether you click on an advertisement? Absolutely; that's how we would get paid for the advertisements.

Will they be able to see members' posts? Currently, anyone can see members' posts.

[von Corax]

You thinking of Admin, von Corax? If so, you have, without a shadow of doubt, got my vote.

I haven't fallen over yet, but I am leaning heavily.

[James Harrison]

My $3 / month contribution I could easily whack up to $5.  Regarding allowing ads; well I run an adblock (have you seen the absolute carnage out there?- I've regard it as an absolute prerequisite) so as long as we're not going to go down the 'must be disabled to allow you access' or adblock-proof ads route I struggle to see it would affect my experience of the site.   

[Rockula]

I used to pay the $3 a month for about 10 years until about a year ago when it looked like the fee wasn't giving us the support we needed.

I thought the whole thing was going to go down permanently and thought I was just wasting my money.

However, I'm now prepared to start paying $3 or even $5 a month again if we are guaranteed the  site will have the full support it needs from people with the necessary skills.

I do NOT like the idea of advertising in any form. Every other Forum I've been a Member of that introduced Advertising has died.

Maybe one Membership perk could be to pay a Premium to not have adverts?

Anyway, I await developments with interest.

[SeVeNeVeS]

I run Ad Block Plus in firefox, never seen an ad on sparegoggles and never realized it was supported by the perishing things.

IMHO the forum should remain open and available to all, subscription's should  be voluntary, none of this exclusive stuff.

We are here to show, inform, advise and educate a random fishing interest in Steampunk via gooooooglything. Hopefully inspired, they themselves will join and contribute

So, no members only shyte, keep it exactly as it is.

edit...... what exactly does a Governor do? (I've been looking at the current Mod list stuff)

[J. Wilhelm]

Strangely, I like the idea of an annual membership fee. Not to stop new people from coming in, mind you. You don't want to discourage new people from perusing the boards, which even a $5 fee could do, but to have a "gate" for higher benefits in the forum, as opposed to people who only interact for one day or one week, because they saw something interesting and registered. Something akin to a "Guest and Member" hierarchy.

I don't care for the idea, unless we could come up with some sort of "Member Plus" premium benefit. I joined on a whim, to contribute to a discussion on duelling in Queensland; had there been a registration fee I quite likely would not be here.

Yeah, I know. Even a $5 fee will keep the random passer by away. That's why I was pushing for ad support. But once you go intro privately funded, you can't just lean on a few people to finance the place. Membership is not even close to what it used to be. For those "fledgling fora" the type of platform sparegoggles.forumotion.net uses is best.

[James Harrison]

Even a $5 fee will keep the random passer by away (...) Membership is not even close to what it used to be. 

I think that hits the nail on the head right there.  How many active members do we actually have at the moment?  My personal experience is that there are loads of people around who are either interested in steampunk or are active members of the community but only a small proportion of them are members here.  Facebook and other social media platforms are usurping the role of the forum (I mean generally, not specifically BG) which is a damn shame.

[SeVeNeVeS]

You thinking of Admin, von Corax? If so, you have, without a shadow of doubt, got my vote.

I haven't fallen over yet, but I am leaning heavily.

So, the question is, if our good von Corax decides to teeter over, who will be back up?

I'm thinking  J. Wilhelm.

[MWBailey]

Somebody has to NOT  be a Pollyanna  here. I guess it'll have to be me, again.

Funny thing, not everybody who's a "regular" member posts or comments every day. Sorry guys, but until you make a fee mandatory, I'll keep showing up at whiles (Yep, this is that kind of comment)...

Another "funny" thing: it's all well and good to say you're in favor of a membership fee, but there are those who will be unable to do the membership fee thing, for various reasons, not always due to funds availability. Are you saying they don't deserve to be able to sign up, because they don't have enough money, or can't pay the fee for other reasons? Are current members who can't afford the fee or can't pay it for other reasons going to have to leave and not be members, because they don't belong to the In The Money Club?

Sorry, I know the idea that "anybody wholesome" can afford "a $5.00 fee" is a an appealing, comfy, great, rosy idea, but that's just a big, rosy, comfy fantasy that often pops up the heads of elitists and rich people. Real life doesn't necessarily work that way. "Just $5.00" is camel spine breakage material to some people, especially right now. Being able to pay for internet connection does not necessarily equate to being able to pay membership fees, or even in some circumstances ONE membership fee (it's called the Real World, folks. It exists, will ye, nil ye). With the economy all over the world the way it is right now, and joblessness inceasing all over the place, money can be a real issue. Not everybody who's unable to pay a fee is a malcontent; some are in a bad way financially through no fault of their own, and will have to make the choice between a membership fee and keeping life and soul together. Guess what? They'll most likely choose to keep eating, once it sinks in just how desperate their situation actually is. There goes, I suspect, even more of the longtime current membership.

Then there's people like me, for example, who made a promise a long time ago to a dear relative who's still alive and living in the same house that they would not pay a fee for membership to anything online (like I said above, that's one sure way to get rid of me: make an online fee mandatory). There are other, nonfinancial reasons for not wanting a fee, I'm sure. But anyway, again, there goes another section of the longtime membership. 

I realize, though, that that's exactly what some secretly want: to kick out all of the people they don't think belong here. Infrequent posters (like me). People who routinely mention how little money they have (like me). People whose politics leak out occasiionally (I try to avoid it buuut...). People who dare to say that some rule or mandate is unfair (?). People who don't have money (?) ... Before long, the people who want to kick everybody else out will be the only ones left. A site full of nothing but grumpy loners. Won't that be fun...

Some members see BG as the last light in a darkening world, a place where they can still come and not have to give in to the fat cats of the world in order to belong to something. I guess it must be time to kill that hope off and blow out a few more lamps. Can't have poor people on here, they might stain the linoleum.

But sure, I get it. Those pesky ads are a cast iron problem. Durn things look at your cookies and determine you want to see this or that ad that you're not really too comfortable with having on your screen. I guess it's a much better idea to kick out the poor people and the people who dare to express a differing opinion, so you don't have to look at them or those inconveniently right-on-target ads, huh?

[SeVeNeVeS]

I'm sorry here but am I reading things wrong?, there is no mention of a mandatory 5 bucks just to be a member. von Corax asked if the current Mods would be willing to contribute and few other members said they would too.

As for adverts, yet undecided, but a general no in that direction. all you have to do is add a blocker to your browser and problem solved.

Can we please all be a little focused here.

Or is it me not getting the gist  

[von Corax]

I'm sorry here but am I reading things wrong?, there is no mention of a mandatory 5 bucks just to be a member. von Corax asked if the current Mods would be willing to contribute and few other members said they would too.

As for adverts, yet undecided, but a general no in that direction. all you have to do is add a blocker to your browser and problem solved.

Can we please all be a little focused here.

Or is it me not getting the gist  

Nope, you got it. I'm opposed to the idea of a membership fee for pretty much all the reasons MW outlined. I was just hoping to guilt a few more donors, because, as I (like many of us) find myself in somewhat reduced circumstance, paying the entire US$65 (~CA$90) per month myself would be a bit of a stress. I've PMed proteus to ask how much the current donations cover, and am awaiting an answer.

[Deimos]

Junuea, I can't see (so please correct me if I'm wrong) where it has ever been suggested, implied or insinuated that anyone is trying to get anyone else marginalized, excluded or jettisoned.
For anyone to make that assumption comes very close to rash judging.

I said I'd be willing to pay a fee for more perks.
I belong to another forum  (actually I belong to half a dozen...only one requires a fee, and that just happened), that doesn't require a fee, but if you choose to donate you get a few perks that  non donors  don't get, namely more storage space for PM's and the tag PREMIUM FORUM SUPPORTER under your avatar pic (which is 'way cooler than more PM space   )

If, IF, we should go to a voluntary format that rewards donors with a few perks I don't see that as being elitest.
I bear no resentment toward anyone if they can afford something I can't (or if I can afford it I choose not to purchase it).

I just recently became a member of the GCR567 Locomotive Group, the same one to which our James Harrison belongs.
GCR567 Locomotive Group
If you are a subscriber (yearly donation required) you are guaranteed a seat on the maiden run.

Now, in all likelihood I will never be a passenger on that historic run because I live 5267 miles (8476 km) from where the locomotive sits.
I can't afford to fly over there for the celebration, and so will give my seat away to someone else who would give his right arm to be on that run, but can't afford the yearly subscription to qualify.

And even if I wasn't guaranteed a seat I would still donate.
Some things (like BG) are worth donating to keep them running (or even get them running   ) just because they are good things that should be kept operational.    


 

[J. Wilhelm]

Seems to be a case of "I want my cake and eat it too." Please make a bit of time to look again at the conditions that led Proteus to hand over the site.

For me, it's very simple, and I reiterate, my preference is #1 below, but realistically these are your options:

1. Ad supported site, because obligatory fees will bring down membership, AND voluntary fees are not enough, thus placing an undue burden upon the shoulders of one or several administrative staff. Facing financial hardship due to the pandemic and a very low membership enrollment, it doesn't make sense to make Brassgoggles a private club financed by one or very few people. In fact, I think brassgoggles.co.uk is too much of a private club right now, which is why membership is low.

2. But if we MUST make keep brassgoggles a private club, then fees (obligatory or not) will be needed. The most likely outcome is that moderators and administrators will be the only ones paying the fees, with one or two members making anonimous random contributions. Thus, administrators must commit to supporting the site. Fees will not be optional for them.

It's a fact folks. Realistically you only have two choices. 1. AD supported forum, or 2. Voluntary fee, with Admin and moderators actually being the ones paying. - Isn't that *mostly* what's happening right now anyway?

I have no problem paying a bit for being an administrator. I'll gladly pay a personal $5 monthly (or the $60 contribution for fees for the first year) for Brassgoggles.co.uk Mk. II, which is 1/12th of the annual budget - but what about the 11 other parts of the budget?

The reason I'll chip in, is that brassgoggles.co.uk has given me so much over the years, including help from members, when I was in dire straights and trying not to be homeless a decade ago, that I figure I OWE brassgoggles.co.uk a bit of my money and time. What we can't do, however, is all lean on one person to pay for the fees. A minimum designated group of people would HAVE to cover the costs, and that may include moderators, so might as well make that a requirement for Brassgoggles officers. Being an administrator is a paid privilege and a personal responsibility.

The only thing is that I am a scientist, not an IT guy. I know a lot about computers, but not about networks. My knowledge on setting up servers goes all the way back to the 1990s, when I setup a workstation as a server (that's the way it used to be in the earliest days of internet). Mainly I use computers as giant calculators, so unless you want an upwind direct Navier Stokes numerical simulation of à supersonic flow past a hemisphere, I'm afraid I won't be the expert. I don't think it's too challenging for me to learn, but I have to learn. The primary administrator, thus, must be someone who is familiar with networking. Preferably with experience.

[Deimos]

I said I'd increase my donation to $5/month ($60 /year)
If there is a way for me to make a single annual donation I will sign up to donate $65 annually.
That covers one month's operating costs.

But I am opposed to ads.

[J. Wilhelm]

I said I'd increase my donation to $5/month ($60 /year)
If there is a way for me to make a single annual donation I will sign up to donate $65 annually.
That covers one month's operating costs.

But I am opposed to ads.

Sorry, I kept editing my post. It's hard to type on my phone.

Anyhow,  you're right. My point is that if all members pay for a fee, there's no problem. But if we *also* insist on voluntary fees for members only, then with no ads, someone must still commit to pay the fees. The only reasonable way is for administrators to finance the budget deficit when there aren't enough contributions. That is exactly what brassgoggles.co.uk is doing now.

We have to bite one of two bullets. But in the end we have to bite a bullet. Because what's happening now to Proteus will happen to anyone who takes over.

[Prof Marvel]

Greetings My Dear Netizens....

sorry to be tardy, but a combination of airconditioner and laptop failures put me "out of pocket" for a bit.

I also, want to keep this forum alive!

We all have seen how little new activity there is on here.
If it weren't for J Wilhelm and Chicar and a couple others posting there might be, what,  one new post a day?

We have
Very few makers,
Few events reports ( few events, so...)
Few projects

I am as guilty as any.

I have seen the more energetic people who were rebuilding cars, steam engines, remodelling RV's or
trailers, motorcycles, or houses into steampunk .... slowly drift away.

We have lost Many of the interesting people like Tower, Sgt.Major Thistlewaite, Miles (a sailor)Martin , 
D.Oakes, Cap'n Harlock, Utini, Storey, Akumabito, and many others, and esp the actual
machinists who seem to  have left ?

We are also no longer having long lovely threads such as
"Fighting like a Steam punk"
"Etiquette"

and a few other interesting topics.

We need More Like That.

And  good projects! ( right prof, where's all your projects, hmmm? )

None of us are interested in
  "how I made my steampunk goggles from toilet paper tubes, glitter, and macaroni"
But we need more of the tooling and modelmaker threads and discussions!

My thoughts-
Brassgoggles is actually a Club.
It was built and maintained by proteus & other notables, but he is passing on the mantle.

But, you know what, it's OUR club.
So, WE need to take over from proteus and find a way to keep it going.

I would not mind a couple of bucks a month, if we can do something like paypal or even one of those
"tip jar" things the web comic sites use, it makes it easy.

I do not mind the idea of ads, as J Wilhelm said, "the watchers and bots" are skimming this site anyway,
and some ads can pay for the server.

Regaridng privacy & etc, .... J Wilhelm may not have been an IT guy... but I was.

Deimos, and anyone else - if you are concerned about privacy, I can put together a little STEP-BY-STEP tutorial , on how
to set up your browser , and you won't even SEE any ads, and they won't be able to track you.


BTW regarding funding,  it does not have to be "either or"
1) we could start with an annual fund drive, freely given.
2) we could add "subscriptions" that give the user a Fancy Hat Avatar or some such
3) If funds start running short, we can talk about ads and how to keep Well Known Citizens safe (I can and will help with that)
4) J's idea of charging to sign up has merit - with a twist: grandfather in all existing users, but charge newbies $1 or so
    (one time) to sign up - it MIGHT really limit the spam, bots, and one-time "come see my shop" barstiches.

While we are at it I should like to bring up moving BG to a hosting service that is "not in the U.K. or Australia"
No offense, but there is quite a bit of conversation killing going on due to fear of offending the UK government .
Basically coming down to   "Can't talk about XYZ due to UK/ Aus / NZ Thought Police".

That has REALLY stifled a lot of otherwise interesting discussion, and a lot of good people just said "screw this" and left.

I don't want or intend to turn this into a "weapons forum", but am really after more "freeedom of speech" - ie freer discussion of  Everything Victorian/ Steamy ( except xxxx porn ) would be welcome. Let's face it, some of the livelier discussions were about various esoteric weapons and fighting techniques of the day. Those threads went on for MONTHS. Also, the Etiquette thread, and the 'Definition of a Lady, Gentleman, gypsy, Pirate, etc ....

It doesn't have to be right away, and nothing against Brits, but worrying about the UK government taking offense over
some trifle one posts simply isn't "right"...  and being on a vetted "neutral" server farm has other advantages especially
vis-a-vis privacy and etc.

more later.
prof marvel

[Deimos]

Yes! What Professor Marvel said!
A lot of good ideas, especially for funding the site (and I want one of those Fancy Hats!)

[J. Wilhelm]

Can we have a "see no ads" feature for those who opt to pay? That might welcome anyone visiting. The only thing is that we may be limiting fee income as well.

I guess what I want is to guarantee the financing of the server without leaning financially on the administrators. And I hate the idea of begging the members for funds "a-la Jerry Lewis' Telethon" for those of you old enough to know what I'm talking about.

Ads may be good for financing , or a combination of ads and fees, but I don't know all the possibilities. I'm speaking off the cuff, because I really know nothing about this. All I know is that Steampunk Mexico's forum, http://steampunk.mexico-foro.com/, is still happily running, like a ship sailing without a captain, even after being abandoned for Facebook. I guess they left the forum in the same capacity as our http://sparegoggles.forumotion.net.

[J. Wilhelm]

Another idea which went nowhere the last time we tried to attract people was to have a Facebook page (we have one) and Twitter accounts (we have two, I think one unofficial and one official?) Mostly to keep people appraised of the forum status. We (meaning I) did successfully use the Facebook page to warn people that our domain address had expired (brassgoggles.co.uk) and we could be found at brassgoggles.net(/com?) for an extended period of time years ago.

I will reiterate THAT I HATE FACEBOOK. And I think that recent events have shown why. That might work toward our advantage. I know that currently a number of people have abandoned or closed their personal Facebook pages, but I suspect that doesn't apply to clubs. We will need to mount an expedition to see how many Steampunk groups remain, and figure how to re-establish contact.

The only thing I'd like to add, related to Twitter /Facebook is that we've been targeted for abuse by Mr. Ottens, the Diesekpunk guy, who has mounted a relentless campaign to malign Steampunk as a movement. He is promoting a thread on his online blog, whereby he keeps repeating that Steampunk is dead by suicide, and every few months he places a series of Twitter (and I imagine Facebook) posts saying how Steampunk is dead and why. In reality it's the same tired old thread he started years ago, where his guests come in and take cheap shots at Steampunk. This has been going on for more than a year, probably two years.

Why is he doing that? Well, my guess is that he's deriving some advantage from the controversy somehow. But it's gotten so bad, I've actually had to block him on Twitter. I don't know what to do about that, but we had a thread on the subject in the Metaphysical section.

[Prof Marvel]

Proteus has given us some time to work this out, so lets use it well.

If we take over BG, we can continue to make this our interweb club, pub, & etc.
It does not have to be exclusive.

Perhaps there can be perks for paying members such as one or more member-only subforums, perhaps a spot to upload photos...

A few other thoughts-

I am on several muzzleloading sites and do not pay a fee

- One site has an annual fund drive - basically requesting donations. nothing mandatory and it covers the server costs.

- Another site has ads - this has not been a problem. I use "uBlock Origin" and clear cookies & etc .
    Thus, No tracking. And I don't see ads.
    I also use a free utility called "Ccleaner" that wipes out all traces of anything left on my machine.
   
Diemos - I myself am a privacy freak-geek. I regularly cruise forums with ads, and do not see them and am unaffected.
PM me and I can help.

If we can clearly identify and enumerate the tasks, we could divvy up some of the chores.
I have never run  a forum, but as a retired Sys Admin and IT guy, I can offer a lot of technical expertise.


other possible ideas -
- reading is ALWAYS free

- charge a small fee "$1 or something" for "new users" to post which will keep the spam down (yeah, I already said that)

- grandfather in the existing well-known members as "gratis-emeriitas" -
     ie "we like you so you are free but can donate whatever you feel you can"
     add cute hat under the nameplate as "donor" or "emeritas"

- set up a "NEWBY" subforum - after 10 or 15 or 20 actually valuable posts you get grandfathered in unless you violate T.O.S.

I realize this is a tad complicated but...

---
My Dear J -
I see no need for facebook or twit. Dumping them would be no loss.
If  this "Mr. Ottens, the Diesekpunk guy" is a real problem, as in "causing actual financial loss", or "mental duress,"
or any of several newish legally actionable thingies, I could make him my new hobby.
If he is merely a loud boorish troll on faceyspace, let him stew in his own karmic faceyspace juices until the Universe
catches up with him.





Oh, and here's a hat for Deimos



yhs
prof marvel

[SeVeNeVeS]

Sorry to be the one who has to bring this BACK ON TOPIC.

WHO is willing, able and prepared to be our new Admin?

von Corax I think is considering/ pondering. (and would be my choice)

We can thrash out details later, which by the looks could be a long slog, but we need a new valiant leader to step up soon.

[J. Wilhelm]

Sorry to be the one who has to bring this BACK ON TOPIC.

WHO is willing, able and prepared to be our new Admin?

von Corax I think is considering/ pondering. (and would be my choice)

We can thrash out details later, which by the looks could be a long slog, but we need a new valiant leader to step up soon.

Careful not to miss the details, Mr. Seveneves. Let me be clear: administrators *potentially* and depending on what system of governance we choose, may need to commit to wholly or partially finance the forum ($65 x 12 = $780 per year) UNLESS we can hash out a site + payment plan + donation plan +advertisement method, etc, which is what those posts above are detailing.

I can't see anyone raising their hand right now, saying "yes, yes, I'll be the admin" if he/she doesn't even know how much money he/she will have to commit to pay in the future, yes? Or let me put it bluntly. I will not commit to anything unless I have a plan on the table. I can give you guys $65/yr. , but I won't commit to give you $780. Even dividing $780 by 3 admin is a good chunk of change for a small forum with very few members that could be run for free with ads.

As far as who could line up to be an administrator, I think I've read at least three names besides myself for candidates to admin positions.

[SeVeNeVeS]

Fair enough. I will sit back for a while and lurk.