News:

The Great Migration is complete! If you encounter any issues using the forum, please file a report in the Engine Room.

Main Menu

A suggestion - profile genders

Started by Caledonian, November 18, 2021, 04:52:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Caledonian

greetings, friends and foes.

I was looking at my profile settings for the first time in a while, and realised you can set your gender on there. however, this only gives the options male and female, or the option to show nothing at all.
Since I recently came out of the closet as a nonbinary person (even though i have been "out" on the internet for a while), I was wondering if it would be possible to include a third option? it could be something simple and kinda tongue in cheek like "person", I think.

Regardless, I do hope this is not a controversial topic to engage.
Passion is like a Peatfire

J. Wilhelm

Quote from: Caledonian on November 18, 2021, 04:52:42 PM
greetings, friends and foes.

I was looking at my profile settings for the first time in a while, and realised you can set your gender on there. however, this only gives the options male and female, or the option to show nothing at all.
Since I recently came out of the closet as a nonbinary person (even though i have been "out" on the internet for a while), I was wondering if it would be possible to include a third option? it could be something simple and kinda tongue in cheek like "person", I think.

Regardless, I do hope this is not a controversial topic to engage.


Since I'm not the administration expert in the forum, I don't really know. But I don't think it's controversial at all. What I don't know is if the primitive functions of the software we use (Simple Machines) allow changes...

Anyone else knows?

von Corax

A quick search and perusal of the Simple Machines wiki suggests that custom genders were a new feature in SMF 2.1, which means they definitely aren't available in our installation (SMF 1.1.20.) Sorry. If the long-rumoured transfer of power ever happens, I'll put that on the to-do list.
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
By the Beans of Life do my thoughts acquire speed
My hands acquire a shaking
The shaking becomes a warning
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
The Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics is 5845 km from Reading

Caledonian

ah, that is a shame. thank you for checking though!


Quote from: J. Wilhelm on November 18, 2021, 05:38:59 PM

But I don't think it's controversial at all.


You'd be surprised by how much uphevel a request like that can start, though I should have expected this community to be better than that <3
Passion is like a Peatfire

J. Wilhelm

Quote from: Caledonian on November 19, 2021, 05:00:14 PM
ah, that is a shame. thank you for checking though!


Quote from: J. Wilhelm on November 18, 2021, 05:38:59 PM

But I don't think it's controversial at all.


You'd be surprised by how much uphevel a request like that can start, though I should have expected this community to be better than that <3

We were always an eclectic bunch.

von Corax

Quote from: Caledonian on November 18, 2021, 04:52:42 PM
it could be something simple and kinda tongue in cheek like "person", I think.

  • Male
  • Female
  • Enby
  • Fluid
  • Clank
  • Shoggoth
  • Eldrich Horror
  • Unspecified

How does that sound?
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
By the Beans of Life do my thoughts acquire speed
My hands acquire a shaking
The shaking becomes a warning
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
The Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics is 5845 km from Reading

Caledonian

Quote from: von Corax on November 19, 2021, 05:57:38 PM
Quote from: Caledonian on November 18, 2021, 04:52:42 PM
it could be something simple and kinda tongue in cheek like "person", I think.

  • Male
  • Female
  • Enby
  • Fluid
  • Clank
  • Shoggoth
  • Eldrich Horror
  • Unspecified

How does that sound?

Those are great <3
Passion is like a Peatfire

RJBowman

A few years ago the University of Michigan tried to solve this problem by having every student fill out a form with their preferred pronoun. Each professor was provided with a pronoun list for each of his classes and was required to comply with the list, which was made a university rule.

So when one student chose "his majesty" as his pronoun, the professors were required to comply.

Sorontar

My bank lets us chose the honorifics or titles for our personal accounts. I could have chosen Grand Poobah.
Sorontar, Captain of 'The Aethereal Dancer'
Advisor to HM Engineers on matters aethereal, aeronautic and cosmographic
http://eyrie.sorontar.com

von Corax

Once the move is done, we'll be upgrading to SMF 2.1, and I will definitely revisit this!
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
By the Beans of Life do my thoughts acquire speed
My hands acquire a shaking
The shaking becomes a warning
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
The Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics is 5845 km from Reading

Caledonian

Quote from: von Corax on June 09, 2022, 06:40:49 PM
Once the move is done, we'll be upgrading to SMF 2.1, and I will definitely revisit this!

Thank you ever so much! that means a lot<3
Passion is like a Peatfire

mizzarrogh

#11
Nice!
In Swedish we had to import a genderneutral finish word "Hen" which means both he or she, etc.
:)  I guess everybody know anyway that i am woman inside since i was like 7 anyway and tried on my mother underwear... ha ha

I know i am born very male, but i prefear she/her or they/them.

Sir Henry

I have always liked using 'Professor' as it is gender neutral and has no official definition and you don't need any qualifications to use it. And it adds an impressive cachet of erudition (that in my case is entirely unearned  ;) ).
I speak in syllabubbles. They rise to the surface by the force of levity and pop out of my mouth unneeded and unheeded.
Cry "Have at!" and let's lick the togs of Waugh!
Arsed not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for tea.

Caledonian

Quote from: Sir Henry on June 26, 2022, 06:51:34 PM
I have always liked using 'Professor' as it is gender neutral and has no official definition and you don't need any qualifications to use it. And it adds an impressive cachet of erudition (that in my case is entirely unearned  ;) ).

I like that. I often joke that I am in university only so people can start calling me doctor
Passion is like a Peatfire

Sorontar

#14
Professor is associated with ranks in academia, but different countries deal with it differently. In Australia, the ranks of academics go Assistant Lecturer/Research Assistant > Lecturer/Research Fellow > Senior Lecturer/Reader/Senior Research Fellow > Associate Professor > Professor. In the US (and maybe parts of Europe), they aren't Lecturers, they are Professors, with similar intermediate levels of Professor. I am sure someone will be able to explain the German system as well, which I think added levels or titles. So in Australia, you are normally wrong if you call an academic a Professor, but most will ignore it.

Not everyone can call themselves a doctor either. You generally need a doctorate by research (PhD or equiv) or medical qualifications (Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery - MBBS). If you are a surgeon, in Australia, you don't call yourself doctor and use Mr/Ms/etc (because you are at a level above a normal medical doctor), but dentists and vets do.

The problem is that Doctor is a known alternative honorific that is commonly provided in systems, but things like Mx aren't. Interestingly, my local newspaper has decided that even leaders will only be referred to with the their full title only once per article. It will be Prime Ministers Johnson and Albanese and President Biden once, then Johnson, Albanese and Biden for the rest of the article.

Sorontar
Sorontar, Captain of 'The Aethereal Dancer'
Advisor to HM Engineers on matters aethereal, aeronautic and cosmographic
http://eyrie.sorontar.com

Mercury Wells

IIRC, Some Victorian Era sportmen called themselves "Professor" Will Smith.
Oh...my old war wound? I got that at The Battle of Dorking. Very nasty affair that was, I can tell you.

The Ministry of Tea respectfully advises you to drink one cup of tea day...for that +5 Moral Fibre stat.

von Corax

I don't say this authoritatively, but I would consider Prof., Dr., Mx. &c to be honorifics rather than genders, and (aside from the specific Mx) to be somewhat orthogonal to gender. Combining them into one profile setting might lead more to complication than to fun; I think a more suitable place for an honorific would be one's Personal Text or signature.

PS: For those of the nonbinary persuasion, is "enby" acceptable or should it be spelled out in full?
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
By the Beans of Life do my thoughts acquire speed
My hands acquire a shaking
The shaking becomes a warning
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
The Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics is 5845 km from Reading

Caledonian

Quote from: von Corax on July 01, 2022, 09:56:20 AM
I don't say this authoritatively, but I would consider Prof., Dr., Mx. &c to be honorifics rather than genders, and (aside from the specific Mx) to be somewhat orthogonal to gender. Combining them into one profile setting might lead more to complication than to fun; I think a more suitable place for an honorific would be one's Personal Text or signature.

PS: For those of the nonbinary persuasion, is "enby" acceptable or should it be spelled out in full?

Oh, I agree with you on that. I don't think we should add honourifics, either.
As to your question, I myself am fine with enby, but I know there are people who consider it infantilising...
Passion is like a Peatfire

J. Wilhelm

Quote from: Caledonian on July 04, 2022, 07:24:30 AM
Quote from: von Corax on July 01, 2022, 09:56:20 AM
I don't say this authoritatively, but I would consider Prof., Dr., Mx. &c to be honorifics rather than genders, and (aside from the specific Mx) to be somewhat orthogonal to gender. Combining them into one profile setting might lead more to complication than to fun; I think a more suitable place for an honorific would be one's Personal Text or signature.

PS: For those of the nonbinary persuasion, is "enby" acceptable or should it be spelled out in full?

Oh, I agree with you on that. I don't think we should add honourifics, either.
As to your question, I myself am fine with enby, but I know there are people who consider it infantilising...

For someone of my generation, I feel like I'm only playing catch with gender nicknames used by younger people, so if I may opine, "enby" does sound a bit on the juvenile side.*  I'd prefer to spell it out.



*Often, certain nicknames used in popular culture to denote queer people (eg terms as used Japanese Manga) are not actually related to gender studies, but rather cartoonish or comical idealizations in popular culture, which may or may not be offensive depending on the context used. These terms are mostly used by people younger than 20 years of age, and are very rarely offensive or intended to be offensive; however recently I've been made aware that a movement is developing, mostly in the UK, to try to avoid using such juvenile nicknames on account that some people, like trans women might find that the terms trivialize their existence.  In other words, it's a can of worms, so it's best to stick with full terms, IMO.

von Corax

Fair enough; I'll keep that in mind when the time comes.

Other than male, female, nonbinary and fluid, are there any other "serious" gender options that should be included?
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
By the Beans of Life do my thoughts acquire speed
My hands acquire a shaking
The shaking becomes a warning
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
The Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics is 5845 km from Reading

J. Wilhelm

#20
Quote from: von Corax on July 05, 2022, 08:30:08 PM
Fair enough; I'll keep that in mind when the time comes.

Other than male, female, nonbinary and fluid, are there any other "serious" gender options that should be included?

There too many to enumerate for a comprehensive list (72 according to some sites). But I can think of a very basic list (and noting these genders can overlap) to cover most common cases.
1 agender / gender neutral
2 cisgender
3 genderfluid
4 gender nonconforming / non binary
5 genderqueer
6 two spirit / third gender
7 transgender

Cisgender is what you call bring in agreement with your assigned gender at birth. If you were a baby boy you feel like a man. A baby girl you feel like a woman. Has nothing to do with who you're attracted to (sexual orientation - you can be straight, gay, bi, pan, etc.)

Agender or Gender Neutral refers to someone that doesn't feel they have any gender. They neither feel masculine, feminine or anything in between.

Genderqueer and Gender Non Conforming / Non Binary, are umbrella terms indicating variance from society's norm.

Genderfluid refers to a constant dynamic change on how close a person feels to being masculine or feminine over an arbitrary period of time and according to mood, etc.

And you can be more than one gender type (I classify myself as 3 and 4).

Two Spirit and Third Gender are ancient cultural concepts of gender you find across ancient civilizations all over the world. These are defined by their culture of origin.

Transgender refers to someone who feels differently from their assigned gender at birth and either takes the opposite binary role (male to female, female to male) or simply diverge from the hetero normative binary (eg Western) tradition. So it can be a specific term (the way most people use it) or the widest umbrella term, depending on how you use it (this is still confusing to me, it has to do with how the terminology evolved over the years, so depending on who you ask either I'm transgender or just simply non-binary and not transgender- someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

mizzarrogh

I am not sure about the original meaning, but the concept of
Two Spirit speaks to me, it feels more close to mother nature than the more modern spunding ones.  :)
However, i don't think it realy matter as long as it works, so for me You can do as You want with this.  :)

Caledonian

Quote from: J. Wilhelm on July 05, 2022, 07:48:48 PM
Quote from: Caledonian on July 04, 2022, 07:24:30 AM
Quote from: von Corax on July 01, 2022, 09:56:20 AM
I don't say this authoritatively, but I would consider Prof., Dr., Mx. &c to be honorifics rather than genders, and (aside from the specific Mx) to be somewhat orthogonal to gender. Combining them into one profile setting might lead more to complication than to fun; I think a more suitable place for an honorific would be one's Personal Text or signature.

PS: For those of the nonbinary persuasion, is "enby" acceptable or should it be spelled out in full?

Oh, I agree with you on that. I don't think we should add honourifics, either.
As to your question, I myself am fine with enby, but I know there are people who consider it infantilising...

For someone of my generation, I feel like I'm only playing catch with gender nicknames used by younger people, so if I may opine, "enby" does sound a bit on the juvenile side.*  I'd prefer to spell it out.



*Often, certain nicknames used in popular culture to denote queer people (eg terms as used Japanese Manga) are not actually related to gender studies, but rather cartoonish or comical idealizations in popular culture, which may or may not be offensive depending on the context used. These terms are mostly used by people younger than 20 years of age, and are very rarely offensive or intended to be offensive; however recently I've been made aware that a movement is developing, mostly in the UK, to try to avoid using such juvenile nicknames on account that some people, like trans women might find that the terms trivialize their existence.  In other words, it's a can of worms, so it's best to stick with full terms, IMO.

As I understand stand it Enby used to just be the abbreviation NB, but people were concerned because NB is used by the American Black community to mean "non-black" so an alternative spelling was adopted to avoid appropriation
Passion is like a Peatfire

von Corax

A quick update on this topic: I will be upgrading the Forum to SMF 2.1.4 on Saturday September 2nd 2023; following this upgrade I will be implementing custom non-binary genders.
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
By the Beans of Life do my thoughts acquire speed
My hands acquire a shaking
The shaking becomes a warning
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
The Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics is 5845 km from Reading

mizzarrogh

Awesome!  :) I am fine with the traditionals, it's not that i would be angry for being missgendered or something like that (i am very used to that from my daily life anyway... I honestly feel secure enough in my self to not actually taking offense), it's just nice to hawing it there  if there would not be too much trouble implementing it.  :)