Zombie defense/survival

[Atterton]

I just watched I Am Legend, in that one the zombie virus is airborne.

[Otto Von Pifka]

me? I'm planning on being one of the first to become zombies!

keep those ideas coming! I'm trying to memorize this as much as possible, so when I rise and those base, reflexive activities take over, my lumbering carcass can track you walking snack trays down.

hmmmmm, BRAINS. 

[Dusza Beben]

As fits a hippy socialist, I think the apocalypse will bring out the best in people.  Disasters here do.  In our floods, people team up to fill sandbags and make hot tea, and with tea an Englishman can outlast the Devil himself.

Must be a British thing, then... Hurricane Katrina, the Tsunami, the droughts in Africa... all fine examples countering your notion of disasters somehow being good for team spirit.

On that note. New Orleans is quite alive and kicking. Yes there are still issues to be resolved, but the picture painted by the media of ransacking hooligans overran the countless acts of true humanity that saved the lives of many a man and beast during the worst of the maelstrom. Tragedy can and does bring out the best in (some) people. But opportunistic parasites are a tough bug to crush. Trajedy sells commercial time as it were.

Either way my zombie plan is much like my Y2K plan.
Being a gun-totin' American, stock up on ammunition. With that you can get everything else you need. 

DB

[Gentlemens Handbook]

On that note. New Orleans is quite alive and kicking. Yes there are still issues to be resolved, but the picture painted by the media of ransacking hooligans overran the countless acts of true humanity that saved the lives of many a man and beast during the worst of the maelstrom. Tragedy can and does bring out the best in (some) people. But opportunistic parasites are a tough bug to crush. Trajedy sells commercial time as it were.

Either way my zombie plan is much like my Y2K plan.
Being a gun-totin' American, stock up on ammunition. With that you can get everything else you need. 

DB

2 days after Katrina I drove there from Tucson, Az with my boat. I volunteered my boat and my labor to help locate people still trapped in the flood. It was surreal. I remember putting along underneath traffic lights and street signs. We found more dogs then people.

Almost every dog we found was someones pet. I was surprised at how many people kept their cell number on the back of the tags. There was nothing more rewarding then reuniting a family that just lost everything with the member of their family they thought they had lost forever.

[Prof. Brockworth]

Either way my zombie plan is much like my Y2K plan.
Being a gun-totin' American, stock up on ammunition. With that you can get everything else you need. 

As the Brain Gremlin said, "I recommend stocking up on canned food and shotguns!"

(Bottled water, canned food and some FFP3 grade respirator masks might be useful too...)

[nicorahiah]

i really planned out what i would do if there was an attack while i was at school. not so much at home D:

first i would grab my friends. like 4 that i actually care about, and make makeshift wepons out of desks and stuff.
next we race over to the rbc center across the street. if theres no traffic accidents or anything ill pile everybody into my car and use the car itself as a barracade for something at the stadium. next once were situated ill take another friend with me to the gas station across the street and raid it along with the wendys behind it. running back to the rbc well put some gas into a few cannisters for fire. and then barricade back into the rbc center. we would make a room designed specifically for survivors who want to come in and they will have to chill in there untill we know there not infected. then they can help us out getting everything fixed up.

thats about it. *shrug*

[Emperor]

I thrashed this out on another forum many moons ago. The basic plan is you get out of Dodge asap.

In Blighty you want to head somewhere with a low population density and/or cold. So Scotland or Wales might work - think about the solid castles or fortified manor houses that you often find along the borders.

Me? I'd aim for the Isle of Man or one of the gas rigs between there and the coast (there are plenty of boats to be had in places like the Alt). In the Isle of Man you could aim for the north end and hunker down/fortify a farmhouse. Your ultimate aim would be a bespoke fortress based on a motte and bailey design. You could then have a large protected area for people to live in and a fallback keep, possibly based around an existing building. If you had a 2 or 3 story building you could bury the first floor and possibly concrete it with entrance up a ladder/steps to a first floor window. You could then have a secure escape tunnel from there for the worst case scenario.

All survivors should also aim to find the kind of radio set-up like those found in coast guard stations and try and communicate. There would be a gradual fall-back if need, via places like the Isle of Wight and/or the Channel Islands to an ultimate European redoubt in Gozo.

Also this might be handy, I stumbled across it the other day:

Zombie Survival & Defense Wiki

[Dax]

So the nation of Sealand is ideally suited for Zombie defense?  Maybe we should all seek citizenship?
http://www.sealandgov.org/

And the Isle of Man is right out.  It'll be infested with Triffids.

I thrashed this out on another forum many moons ago. The basic plan is you get out of Dodge asap.

In Blighty you want to head somewhere with a low population density and/or cold. So Scotland or Wales might work - think about the solid castles or fortified manor houses that you often find along the borders.

Me? I'd aim for the Isle of Man or one of the gas rigs between there and the coast (there are plenty of boats to be had in places like the Alt). In the Isle of Man you could aim for the north end and hunker down/fortify a farmhouse. Your ultimate aim would be a bespoke fortress based on a motte and bailey design. You could then have a large protected area for people to live in and a fallback keep, possibly based around an existing building. If you had a 2 or 3 story building you could bury the first floor and possibly concrete it with entrance up a ladder/steps to a first floor window. You could then have a secure escape tunnel from there for the worst case scenario.

All survivors should also aim to find the kind of radio set-up like those found in coast guard stations and try and communicate. There would be a gradual fall-back if need, via places like the Isle of Wight and/or the Channel Islands to an ultimate European redoubt in Gozo.

Also this might be handy, I stumbled across it the other day:

Zombie Survival & Defense Wiki

[Von Gast]

Me? I'd aim for the Isle of Man

Uh-oh...You do know Jeremy Clarkson lives there part of the time? Zombie Clarkson is a disturbing thought, although his driving might be improved...

Seriously, if you find one of the IoM Steam Packet ships and need a ferry expert give me a shout - if it has engines and thrusters I can probably work out how to get it moving.

[Sir Nikolas of Vendigroth]

We would...but you might be a zombie.

[Von Gast]

We would...but you might be a zombie.

I doubt it. I live in the middle of nowhere. We don't even have digital TV yet. I think even zombies would go elsewhere due to boredom...

[Churchwarden]

Survival is based on a few simple and basic principals in any disaster situation, first and foremost, the preservation and proper use of food and water. The greater the number in your group, the quicker these run out. I could see a few trusted souls in a band working together, but if the large number of simulated zombie apocalypses have taught us, it is that the people travelling with you are nine times out of ten, the thing that gets you killed.
Human beings are social animals because we are bred to be, and there are a number of cultural differences world round that vary the level of this need. The British are very social, as are most European countries, and more apt to have people they would risk life and limb for, understood. America...not so much. I have lived in this place for well over a year, and I couldn't tell you the name or even describe a single one of my neighbors to you, and aside from work related reasons, I never leave my house or visit anyone...I would prefer not to risk infection by relying on others come Z-Day. In groups it will never fail, you must form hierarchies, you must ration supplies, you must assign tasks, you must judge who has become a threat to the safety of the group and who has not...alone I am responsible for one thing, myself. I can farm, forage, build and evade, and if my skills fail me it doesn't get anyone else killed.

[johnny99]

Survival is based on a few simple and basic principals in any disaster situation, first and foremost, the preservation and proper use of food and water. The greater the number in your group, the quicker these run out. I could see a few trusted souls in a band working together, but if the large number of simulated zombie apocalypses have taught us, it is that the people travelling with you are nine times out of ten, the thing that gets you killed.
Human beings are social animals because we are bred to be, and there are a number of cultural differences world round that vary the level of this need. The British are very social, as are most European countries, and more apt to have people they would risk life and limb for, understood. America...not so much. I have lived in this place for well over a year, and I couldn't tell you the name or even describe a single one of my neighbors to you, and aside from work related reasons, I never leave my house or visit anyone...I would prefer not to risk infection by relying on others come Z-Day. In groups it will never fail, you must form hierarchies, you must ration supplies, you must assign tasks, you must judge who has become a threat to the safety of the group and who has not...alone I am responsible for one thing, myself. I can farm, forage, build and evade, and if my skills fail me it doesn't get anyone else killed.

     Thus spake the mall ninja.
Disregarding the notion that churchwarden and a few others have that. They are capable of operating indefinitely without sleep, while simultaneously preforming 360 degree perimeter security, and also farming,foraging,preforming maintenance on their equipment, Bla,Bla,Bla... ad nausium.  While not succumbing to the normal human condition of loneliness, or depression over ones circumstances, or the shear crushing terror of being alone and surrounded by hordes of indestructible nightmares literally baying for your blood and Braaaaaiiiiiiins, every moment of your life. Perhaps we could get on with a real discussion of what would be required to survive.

     First and formost, to survive a zombie apocalypse you have to realize that it's a long term survival situation. The whole I have a couple of cases of MRE's , plenty of ammo, and a good tree to sleep in Idea is right out the window. What's needed is  support ie. other people. to guard your back while you farm, to share the maintenance of vehicles ,etc...

     Second is that the (Animate, life impaired) Greatly outnumber the survivors. hundreds, up to perhaps millions to one. Isn't that the whole idea of the zombie apocalypse?  Against those kind of odds even an 8th degree blackbelt mall ninja will eventually succumb.  The solution is to stop thinking of it as a doom style shooting game. Instead start thinking in terms of proper quarantine procedures, supply requirements, guard rosters, etc... Basically all the boring stuff that's not any fun to sit around and daydream about (unless you have a really warped mind!). Sad, but true.

[elShoggotho]

A mall would be quite fine if you manage to reach the first floor and break down each and every staircase. After that, you can always locally firebomb the ground floor provided the only combustible things down there are zombies.

[Churchwarden]

Brushing aside the attempt at insult, I will once again point out that I am speaking of surviving in hidden, unpopulated areas, setting up to live for an extended period of time, and setting up to do it safely. I've made a lot of points concerning surviving Z-Day, and not one of them relates to a shoot em up, doom approach. Mall ninja? no.
Survival is a skill taught to children that grow up in areas such as deserts and mountains, scout programs teach skills that are also useful in given situations where one finds themselves having to be self sufficient. However, to turn a negative to a positive...I will point out that the previous attempt to shoot down my argument, and the various disagreements that occur all over forums, are a prime example of the inability of most people to function in groups proficiently. I do not have the facilities, nor access to the local military forces to set up rosters and proper quarantine procedures, and this is not my task to do so. The (emphasis here) "APOCALYPSE" means that such things have failed.

You do bring up a good point of sleeping safely and dealing with depression and loneliness.

Sleeping is fairly easy, as there are a large number of places that the living dead in most cases cannot get to. In a previous post I spoke of the importance of trap building, and this also applies. Most of the options that apply here would be environmental, and since in most cases, zombies are attracted to either sound or smell, both of these are very easy to avoid while sleeping by choosing a location that masks them.

Dealing with depression and loneliness, well, lets face it, in the presented scenario, almost if not all of the people you care about will be gone, you will have witnessed violence on a level that I imagine not even war could be on par with, and hope will fast be a fading commodity. You are going to be depressed. The human mind deals with this type of strain on an individual level, some people cope, others don't. Even in a group you will experience this, and in some cases on a worse level, because you will continue to experience this every time someone in the group messes up, dies of infection, starves, etc., not to mention the thought of getting close to someone only to have to put them down should they change.

On a final note, vehicles, unless they are solar powered, are going to be more trouble than good due to the maintenance required to keep them useful. Short term is fine, long term, is pointless. As nature slowly reclaims the land, it will only be a matter of time till the roads are useless, not to mention the clutter on them already.

[Prof. Brockworth]

Simulated zombie apocalypses = movies.  That's not a drill, old bean

[Emperor]

Me? I'd aim for the Isle of Man

Uh-oh...You do know Jeremy Clarkson lives there part of the time? Zombie Clarkson is a disturbing thought, although his driving might be improved...

Yeah but it'd be a great excuse to shoot him in the head, obviously it'd be trickier to justify if he was still alive but really in the rough and tumble of the early days of a zombie apocalypse no one is going o be keeping track.

Seriously, if you find one of the IoM Steam Packet ships and need a ferry expert give me a shout - if it has engines and thrusters I can probably work out how to get it moving.

Interesting. A ferry would make an ideal base of operations - it'd be less likely to be seriously infested (cruise ships are bad enough at the best of times but tend to have a near permanent population), it'd be easy to defend (certainly against zombies, even against undead birds, and pirate types would struggle to board you. It'd also be like a movable castle and you could use it to clear port areas from before landing), it'd have plenty of space for housing people and storing supplies, there'd be plenty of catering and toilet facilities, you are mobile (if someone can work the beast) allowing you to move if things got crazy or if you needed to exploit supplies somewhere else. Also they'd have good radios and if you can connect to other survivors they'd offer the ability to pick them up (in the UK you are never too far from the coast). Also if the eventual plan to fall back to an island and restart civilisation was still ticking along it would allow you to head off there.

I had been thinking about some kind of smaller vessel but you'd probably be able to scrounge enough fuel to run a ferry and it has a lot of strategic advantages.

[Johnny Payphone]

I'm thinking that an island is the way to go.  Small population, which means small infestation, and I've never heard of zombies swimming or handling boats.

Of course not, they just walk along the bottom.  My personal plan involves hijacking a yacht:  Stocked with tinned foods, unreachable by zombies, needs no fuel, highly mobile.

P.S. Don't use a flamethrower, that just gets you flaming zombies.

[Churchwarden]

Good call Mr. Payphone, a wind powered ship would keep indefinately in the water, and as we all know the ocean is a veritable unending source of food. Provided you can do ok on a water supply by rain and condensation collectors, that may be the perfect solution. The only real hardships then would be foul weather and pirates.

[johnny99]

Brushing aside the attempt at insult, I will once again point out that I am speaking of surviving in hidden, unpopulated areas, setting up to live for an extended period of time, and setting up to do it safely. I've made a lot of points concerning surviving Z-Day, and not one of them relates to a shoot em up, doom approach. Mall ninja? no.
Survival is a skill taught to children that grow up in areas such as deserts and mountains, scout programs teach skills that are also useful in given situations where one finds themselves having to be self sufficient. However, to turn a negative to a positive...I will point out that the previous attempt to shoot down my argument, and the various disagreements that occur all over forums, are a prime example of the inability of most people to function in groups proficiently. I do not have the facilities, nor access to the local military forces to set up rosters and proper quarantine procedures, and this is not my task to do so. The (emphasis here) "APOCALYPSE" means that such things have failed.

You do bring up a good point of sleeping safely and dealing with depression and loneliness.

Sleeping is fairly easy, as there are a large number of places that the living dead in most cases cannot get to. In a previous post I spoke of the importance of trap building, and this also applies. Most of the options that apply here would be environmental, and since in most cases, zombies are attracted to either sound or smell, both of these are very easy to avoid while sleeping by choosing a location that masks them.

Dealing with depression and loneliness, well, lets face it, in the presented scenario, almost if not all of the people you care about will be gone, you will have witnessed violence on a level that I imagine not even war could be on par with, and hope will fast be a fading commodity. You are going to be depressed. The human mind deals with this type of strain on an individual level, some people cope, others don't. Even in a group you will experience this, and in some cases on a worse level, because you will continue to experience this every time someone in the group messes up, dies of infection, starves, etc., not to mention the thought of getting close to someone only to have to put them down should they change.

On a final note, vehicles, unless they are solar powered, are going to be more trouble than good due to the maintenance required to keep them useful. Short term is fine, long term, is pointless. As nature slowly reclaims the land, it will only be a matter of time till the roads are useless, not to mention the clutter on them already.

Churchwarden, My apologies if you were insulted. That was not my intent. If I were to ever insult you I promise you would know it. As for the mall ninja thing, there is no reason to feel insulted about it. It is simply a stage most young men go through. I myself held a 3rd degree mall ninja blackbeltway back when. It's one of the things that drove me to joint the Infantry, and teach both (survival ,evasion,   
escape, and NBC (nuclear,biologicaland chemical) survival.
     To address a couple of your other points, you say you were speaking of surviving in hidden unpopulated areas? 

Survival is based on a few simple and basic principals in any disaster situation, first and foremost, the preservation and proper use of food and water. The greater the number in your group, the quicker these run out. I could see a few trusted souls in a band working together, but if the large number of simulated zombie apocalypses have taught us, it is that the people travelling with you are nine times out of ten, the thing that gets you killed.
Human beings are social animals because we are bred to be, and there are a number of cultural differences world round that vary the level of this need. The British are very social, as are most European countries, and more apt to have people they would risk life and limb for, understood. America...not so much. Survival is based on a few simple and basic principals in any disaster situation, first and foremost, the preservation and proper use of food and water. The greater the number in your group, the quicker these run out. I could see a few trusted souls in a band working together, but if the large number of simulated zombie apocalypses have taught us, it is that the people travelling with you are nine times out of ten, the thing that gets you killed.
Human beings are social animals because we are bred to be, and there are a number of cultural differences world round that vary the level of this need. The British are very social, as are most European countries, and more apt to have people they would risk life and limb for, understood. America...not so much. I have lived in this place for well over a year, and I couldn't tell you the name or even describe a single one of my neighbors to you, and aside from work related reasons, I never leave my house or visit anyone...I would prefer not to risk infection by relying on others come Z-Day. In groups it will never fail, you must form hierarchies, you must ration supplies, you must assign tasks, you must judge who has become a threat to the safety of the group and who has not...alone I am responsible for one thing, myself. I can farm, forage, build and evade, and if my skills fail me it doesn't get anyone else killed.
I would prefer not to risk infection by relying on others come Z-Day. In groups it will never fail, you must form hierarchies, you must ration supplies, you must assign tasks, you must judge who has become a threat to the safety of the group and who has not...alone I am responsible for one thing, myself. I can farm, forage, build and evade, and if my skills fail me it doesn't get anyone else killed.

Nope.

         
     

I have lived in this place for well over a year, and I couldn't tell you the name or even describe a single one of my neighbors to you, and aside from work related reasons, I never leave my house or visit anyone...

This is a bit of a disingenuous statement as it was made to a huge interaction group,from which you receive social support. Specifically this forum.
     

alone I am responsible for one thing, myself. I can farm, forage, build and evade, and if my skills fail me it doesn't get anyone else killed.

But you can't do them all at the same time, Which is the whole point. Farming implies a massive amounts of time and energy expended, and who is going to guard you for the months that you need to occupy a particular area while you farm? The same thing applies to building. Foraging is going to require a security detail. You must have seen the movies? The doomed fool walks into the grocery store, reaches for a bag of Ho-Ho's, and the zombie clerk lurches out of the display to ultimately succumb to your partners machete. But not until inflicting a relatively minor bite on you which, Being a selfish ME FIRST kind of guy, you don't tell anyone about. Until you turn at the most inopportune time, and attack your friends.AWWWW, how sad! now you have gone from being the hero of the story to being a plot advancement vehicle.
     Then there is the evading thing. Pray to god you don't twist an ankle, break a leg,or for that matter, suffer any injury that might require aid.
     I will leave it at saying that while your idea's sound plausible. A little bit of real world experience would dissuade you of most of them in short order.

[Johannes von Koenigsbach]

Good call Mr. Payphone, a wind powered ship would keep indefinately in the water, and as we all know the ocean is a veritable unending source of food. Provided you can do ok on a water supply by rain and condensation collectors, that may be the perfect solution. The only real hardships then would be foul weather and pirates.

Hmm.  Or, better, a fully submersible vehicle.   Powered by sodium/mercury batteries (sodium being plentiful in seawater).  A small community, taking food from the sea's bounty, could survive indefinitely.   What a pity that there is no possible way that such a habitat could successfully pull off a steampunk aesthetic.

JMK

[Von Gast]

Interesting. A ferry would make an ideal base of operations - it'd be less likely to be seriously infested (cruise ships are bad enough at the best of times but tend to have a near permanent population), it'd be easy to defend (certainly against zombies, even against undead birds, and pirate types would struggle to board you. It'd also be like a movable castle and you could use it to clear port areas from before landing), it'd have plenty of space for housing people and storing supplies, there'd be plenty of catering and toilet facilities, you are mobile (if someone can work the beast) allowing you to move if things got crazy or if you needed to exploit supplies somewhere else. Also they'd have good radios and if you can connect to other survivors they'd offer the ability to pick them up (in the UK you are never too far from the coast). Also if the eventual plan to fall back to an island and restart civilisation was still ticking along it would allow you to head off there.

I had been thinking about some kind of smaller vessel but you'd probably be able to scrounge enough fuel to run a ferry and it has a lot of strategic advantages.

You should have no trouble. The minor snag would be that in the event of zombies I'd expect the average crew to close the doors and head for the open sea rather than leaving the ship conveniently fuelled and ready in harbour!

If you did manage to find one, you'd have no trouble keeping supplies of food aboard (just drive trucks straight onto the car decks and hook them up to ship power to keep refrigeration units running) and you can stretch out the built in fuel tanks by carrying road tankers filled with suitable fuel. They tend to ride and handle better with a load of trucks aboard too. The Western channel ships would be a better idea than the Dover Strait fleet as the latter don't have many cabins. I would be inclined to go after the Normandie, Bretagne or Barfleur from the Brittany Ferries fleet.

[Churchwarden]

Apology accepted, and still keeping in the lightness of the topic...if you consider me a young man, I am flattered, especially considering by most standards I am nearing middle age. Life experience is something I do have quite a bit of however, I assure you.

Not to let this turn into a back and forth type of thing, and in hopes we will not argue over a topic spun out in fun, I will not address the "I know this, I have this training, I can do such and such". All I ask is, please, do not make assumptions about the ability nor character of people you know little or nothing about.

Now to stay on topic, foraging, farming, and evading can all be done quite well in the areas I am thinking due to the nature of the locations. Rooftop farming for instance is a no brainer. Following Mr. Payphone's idea, hydroponic gardening is fairly simple as well, as is fishing. The concept of having a personal guard to go out a gather may work in some cases, but since most if not all our speculations are based upon films, we can say that groups always fail, let us look at the examples...

Night of the living dead - If Ben had been on his  own, he might have survived, instead the group perished one by one due to individual mistakes and poor judgment because they failed to adhere to the leadership of Ben.

Dawn of the Dead - The entire group is almost wiped out by the actions of a roving band of scavenger bikers. and they are forced to flee an otherwise well put together shelter due to one of their members leading the other zombies to the haven after being bitten.

Day of the Dead - Military rule becomes counterproductive to the point of the survivors tearing one another apart, egos flare, and the well fortified, underground base is compromised, not by the zombies, but by one of the survivors.

Land of the Dead - This one is a prime example of what happens to groups during reformation. The hierarchies reform and once again we see a resurgence of power hungry leaders and caste systems go into effect, only in a more extreme manner due to the prevailing circumstance. We also see that once again, it is the survivors that cause the problems for the others by not following the direction of leadership.

28 Days Later - Military survivors not only threaten to kill the main characters and worse, they distress they cause lead to the  majority being killed.

I could keep going, but it would be overkill, and I believe the point has been made. Unless you can find a group that can adhere to direction and follow a given plan without deviation, groups cause more destruction to the survivors than the zombies themselves through a lack of discipline and poor judgment.

[Morluna]

I live about half a block from the military university known as The Citadel. This place is literally a castle, a fortress, with impenetrable 5 foot thick walls. If zombies attack, I will quickly trot over to the university, rob the armory blind, set up camp on the top floor of the fortress and wait it out. There's bound to be asstons of food in the cafeteria there as well, so no need to worry about that. It's foolproof! Plus, I'll have a literal army of men to fight alongside me. (Nevermind the history of sexual assault at the university and the fact that if the zombies don't get me first, the hordes of young military men will rape me out of my mind...) I has I gun! You try anything, I keel you!!  Sure... it'll work...

[johnny99]

     

I will not address the "I know this, I have this training, I can do such and such".

Why? I would be more than happy to hear what you feel your qualifications are.
     

but since most if not all our speculations are based upon films

This is incorrect. films are plot driven. and will invariably have the characters acting in way's that drive the story. Not in a realistic manner. My comments are based on real world survival experience and scenario's.
But if you wish to discuss film,'s I invite you to contemplate I am legend , and  Castaway. Both films address the subtle hopelessness and despair that I speak of .  Something to consider in your lone wanderings, what are you surviving for? In I am legend, the protagonist was driven by a belief that he could "still fix things".
I will say no more about it as I don't wish to spoil it for anyone, but if you've seen the movie you will know what I speak of. IN castaway, the main character was kept from suicide only by the hope that he might one day be rescued. Presumably in a zombie apocalypse there will be no such comfort.
     On a different and lighter note. You speak of traps.  ie. Force multipliers,  What did you have in mind? and what do you feel the benefits of a solar vehicle are?