Really, one of the things that makes steam-punk so great is how different it is to everyone, and the fact that it isn't anything in particular. You can't buy it at hot-topic. If you say you are steam-punk, you are. But what this thread is asking, is what a steam-punkian lifestyle is to you, if possible.
To me, it would be punks with etiquette. Scientific, romantic, artistic, and unique deviants that reject the molds of modern society. Victorian sensibility with modern truths (steampunks are NOT racist, imperialistic, homophobic, ect), and a bit of a fuck-the-establishment attitude. A little bit of geek thrown in, what with the obsession with clockwork and steam-tech (and lady lovelace, can't forget her). There is a general attitude of.. respect in the demeanor of my idea of a steampunkian . We don't necessarily try to be outcasts, but our refusal to let ourselves be brainwashed makes us just that often. Of course, steampunks would have different beliefs and moral codes, and scholarly debate should be encouraged, for there is a bit of truth in everything. In reality, our willingness to learn is one of the things that makes us so different. Knowledge is our form of rebellion. There is no uniform for a Steam-punk in my mind, the only thing i wear that could be considered steampunky is a wind-up pocketwatch with the gears visible (being a teenager people find this very peculiar, but maybe that is part of my attraction to it). Music-wise, it really doesn't matter, as long as it conjures up visions of airship explorations and rusty cogs. That is just my opinion however...
P.S: Yes, i know, some parts of my definition are very similar to other definitions of steampunk subculture, but i agreed with those parts.
and i also i know i posted this on nov-net and the myspace group already, but this forum is the friggin brass goggles forum!
Oh, does this count as a political discussion? At least micro-politics? Hopefully not, because i just read your guidelines. Don't use me to feul the boilers please!
Here! Here! mod up, insightful.
For me there is a do-it-yourself, maybe techno-libertarian (small "l") ethic as well.
A steampunk p0wns his machines, he's not p0wnd by them as so many modern day muggles are.
Quote from: kiskolou on February 24, 2007, 01:11:29 AM
respect in the demeanor of my idea of a steampunkian
Mmmmm... Steamed Pumpkins...
What? Oh.
Honestly, I've thought that The Difference Engine, by Gibson and Sterling, was an excellent example of what steampunk life should be like. A better life is merely a few cogs and a boiler away. I only wish that I'd gotten a little more in to the anachronisms when younger, and not merely stopped at the old pair of welding goggles. I don't have much chance to insert my love for antique machines in to my everyday, married, parenting life. I miss being able to express myself a little more without the stares from the boss and coworkers...
This is actually a repost from the myspace group and has touched off some good discussion there. Johnny Payphone had some interesting things to say on the subject, so allow me to repost in his name. He always has fun stories and cool stuff to share, so hopefully he'll join up and continue the discussion himself, but I don't know if he's on the computer regularly enough to keep up with a forum.
Johnny Payphone:
For me, I'm entirely disinterested in fictional steampunk other than the fact that it is visually pleasing. I've never read a steampunk novel or comic book, I don't play roleplaying games since I graduated 8th grade, nor do I have the money to dress up in lace and mince around at some goth club. I accept that steampunk culture is going to encompass a certain amount of fashion and fiction, but I just don't believe in consuming culture- rather, I live my life the way I want it to be and it just happens to end up looking like steampunk. I mean, Iggy Pop never went out and said, "Oh, I want to be a punk, so I should go to punk clubs and read punk novels and dress like a punk and then I'll be one." He just did his thing. It's like Dr. Evermor told me when I asked him a similar question: "I've heard that word- retrofuturism- but I'm not interested in that. I am just trying to build a giant copper egg to fling myself into the ether." He recognizes that his bugs and stuff are art (which he believes anyone can and should make, not just Artists), but his machines are not, they are real. Yes that's a tank engine on an electric bus chassis but it's also his crane. I mean, look at the guy's grill! He just built that to cook steaks. And remember, he started sculpting at age 40.
In the live steam world, the population curve is centered around 65 years of age. The folks who work on locomotives tend to be old white guys in blue coveralls. So the punk comes in a little bit from the new generation, whose numbers are sadly lacking. You can walk into any roundhouse in this country and if there is a steam locomotive there you will immediately be put to work simply because interest is so rare. Some of the 'steampunks' I've met have never heard the term- they're just metalheads who engineer their dad's steam tractor at steam-ups and such. Not to say that live steam is the only aspect of victoriana that steampunk embodies- I don't want to diminish the efforts of people who make steampunk jewelry, clothes, or computers- but for me those things aren't useful unless they are then applied to your life to make it more like you wish it to be. That, after all, is the essence of "punk": a refusal to accept the world you're handed.
So I end up dallying in a lot of different crowds- the old iron crowd, the victoriana collector crowd, the neovictorian goth crowd, the sideshow circus and vaudeville crowd, the vintage camera crowd, the tube electronics crowd, and the recreationist cycling crowd. As far as I have experienced the only true lifestyle steampunk can be found at events put on by groups like Neverwas. At Burning Man there was a steampunk bar, where steampunks who didn't know each other could park their steam vehicles out front and go have some absinthe... where else in the world can that happen? I presume some day folks from the abovementioned circles will converge on some kind of steampunk scene, but as it is it's pretty nascent. That's okay, that just means we're ahead of our time. Sadly, one day you WILL be able to buy brass goggles at Hot Topic, only it will be called Proffessor P. Phineas McGillicudy's Fantastic Gogglemagorium or whatever.
But it's not just a weekend warrior thing for me. I mean, I don't have an ipod, a television, a credit card, an x-box, a car, or a cell phone- these things are soulless and decrease our quality of life. It's not that I gave up those things to be a steampunk, its more that I'm a steampunk (or a retrogrouch) because I eschew those things. I listen to old-time radio programs (there are some great internet stations that actually recreate old broadcasts with ads and everything), I shave with a brush and soap, I keep track of my finances in a big giant ledger, I get around on a pennyfarthing (or some approximation thereof), I prefer to correspond by mail, and most importantly I require a direct connection to the technology and people in my life. It's like Doc said, technology used to be accessible to the common man, every person could be an inventor, and certainly every owner of any piece of technology was an owner-operator. Now most of the technology we use, we don't understand how it works. Maybe we understand abstractly but I certainly couldn't make a new hard drive on a lathe. The internet is one modern convenience I allow myself- it lets me find similarly-minded folks. Still, if I quit it today it wouldn't be much of a loss. I derive the most joy in doing things the same way they've been done for hundreds of years. But because I'm a steampunk and not, say, a recreationist, I can combine technology from different eras. I listen to 8-tracks because it pleases me to preserve that technology. I can repair the tape inside if it breaks. Ours is the last century of "user serviceable parts inside".
Discussion topics:
1) It costs a lot of money to buy fancy old suits and hats and stuff. Then everybody wants to dress up to be the lord of the manor or the gentry or whatever. But the thing about the good ole days is that they sucked for most people. Nobody goes to Ren fest to catch the plague. Personally, my profession as a metalworker allows me to feel like a Victorian craftsman- and I certainly get as dirty as they did in the olden days. My role is the blacksmith, not the lord of the manor. But who will be the servants? And who will be the street urchins? My guess is that street urchin is an excellent way to be a steampunk when you don't have any money. Discuss.
2) Is EVERY steampunk movie ever made visually appealing, wholly unbelieveable, and cheesy? Witness: Wild Wild West, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang... Discuss.
I just replied to Mr. Payphone's post on Myspace, I'll take the liberty of cross-posting my reply here (but I think I'll not make a habit of it)
-------------
Mr Payphone,
You have not so much made a post as written a manifest! Bravo! I've been searching for my own definition of Steampunk - trying to emphasis the punk since I think the steam side is well represented - and you've nailed several salient points.
"But the thing about the good ole days is that they sucked for most people."
Actually for most people they still suck. Outside of the cities many people in the second and nearly everyone in the third world lives a 19th century existence. But some of these folk have the punk mindset, like this hero:
(https://brassgoggles.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.makezine.com%2Fblog%2Fmotorhome.jpg&hash=40177c36138ec777677d89b39e39b8ec829e86d2)
"I get everything I have from the dumpster."
It is so much more satisfying to make something with found materials, in fact I would rather work hard to make anything then sit behind my desk and work for money to buy something nicer.
I'm sure you guys have seen the stuff I've made for The Steampunk Workshop (steampunkworkshop.com) but the thing that I got the most enjoyment out off building so far is my bus:
(https://brassgoggles.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vonslatt.com%2Fimages%2Fbus%2Fintfrontcent.jpg&hash=8a148f264e5bab1c4c81a70c039073c5c2763f09)
Almost everything you see is from our town dump, craigslist, or friends who were throwing something away. There's more here: http://www.vonslatt.com
<snip> the rest is redundant.
Jake.
To me it's going back to a romantic era full of mystery and (sometimes mad) science.
I like the feeling of being secretive and rebellious, but at the same time being civilized and proper. I love the way everything looks, the leather, the feather pens, the wood, the intricate carvings and decoration. It flows into my beliefs about the environment, that steam is better and that mass train transit would be better. I want to get away with walking down the street with a cane and old clothing.
It makes me feel nostalgic for the old times, but at the same time I like the new stuff.
If only steampowered cars and computers were widespread and there were lots and lots of gears and goggles in the world. Oh what a grand place it would be.
Also more books.
Edit now that I'm thinking about it more:
I guess it reminds me of a fantastical world that really could exist, one that exists nearly parallel to ours and we really could achieve. It reminds me of stories my grandfather would tell me, and of an old europe.
It's so full of culture and amazing things. The things I love to see is the modified computers, they really make me feel like the fantasy of steampunk is just right around the corner instead of some far off distant era (like cyberpunk) or like it's trying to feel modern.
I can't wait until I'm finished with school and I can get back to tinkering more :)
Ya, i reposted this, but it was my post before too. To i guess that's a cross-post. Ew. Sorry..
haha no it's cool, i'm glad you did. It's an important issue and I'm sure it'll get more contributions and differing viewpoints here.
Actually, i originally posted it on nov-net. So that makes it a double cross-post. Double Ew...
I guess I'm not really into the whole steam punk life style or anything like that. I just think its a really cool looking visual style.
Quote from: kiskolou on February 24, 2007, 01:11:29 AMpunks with etiquette
If not a band name along the lines of NWA it surely has to become an album title at some point :)
I appreciate the crossposting here, as I don't go to those sites. They were well written, and my thanks for providing the information.
I like the focus on the tinkering. I am always building things to suit my needs. I am currently working on a light weight pair of goggles for sunglasses when I ride my bike because I break sunglasses like nobodies business. (Awaiting materials to arrive, and a healthy couple of days to feel up to tinkering.)
That kind of building and tinkering to suit one's needs is what drew me to the genre initially. I had no idea that there was a genre where other folks liked the old machines, gears, and cogs. Where sometimes the simplest solution is the older way of doing things. Don't get me wrong, I am a technophile with all the gadgets, but I try to minimize the plastic look with an older aesthetic.
I also like the old sensibilities I am seeing from my teen years. I was a hitchhiking gutter punk back then, spare changing and dumpster diving for my needs. Although, I have grown up, and decided to make a living, I still find those skills serve me well. I am more likely to dumpster dive, freecycle, or whatnot for raw materials for my creations, than I am to go out and buy things. It seems so wasteful to purchase things when you just know it's out there, waiting to be found. Not to mention sometimes I find something that causes me to rethink the problem, and by it's very essence come up with a more interesting solution.
I guess what drew me to the subculture originally was the focus on hands on creation. Second, I was struck by the focus on intelligent discourse. The use of words in all their glory, not some illiterate message shorthand. Lastly, the open ended viewpoint, of it's acceptable to those in the genre to take as little or as much as they wanted out of it. That kind of benevolent tolerance is refreshingly wonderful.
Well put, heresy. I feel like I have to link to another post I just made due to the eery similarity of what you just said (it's even got a krust punk anecdote). This post (http://www.brassgoggles.co.uk/bg-forum/index.php?topic=28.0) is kind of following along with the same subject.
So let's see....now i've cross-referenced a post, on a double-crossed post.........carry the y.......crap where does that leave us?
I really love these philosophical discussions about steampunk. This is a conversation I've been having in my head for some time.
Like kiskolou mentioned, the fact that the "movement" is still young and unformed is very attractive to me. I hope that it never really becomes rigid and dogmatized (ahem... though, that would be authentically Victorian.)
As far as lifestyle is concerned, one of the things I have been thinking about lately is steampunk as a reaction against planned obsolescence. There were a few more years before the constant upgrade cycle became a standard in our Western lifestyle, but it seems the Victorian era was the height Western manufacturing quality. By that I mean, that just about any consumer product you bought could be an heirloom. Something that was built well enough that not only would it last your lifetime, but could be proudly handed down to future generations.
There have been many subcultures that have reacted against what has been perceived as an inherent materialism in our culture. I think the problem is one of consumerism, not materialism. If we were truly materialists, we would insist on products of quality, rather than spending less so that we can have more things.
How does this relate to steampunk directly?
Well look at Datamancer's The Nagy Magical-Movable-Type Pixello-Dynamotronic Computational Engine (http://"http://www.datamancer.net/projects/engine/engine.htm"). I'd be willing to bet Datamancer will be using that puppy for the rest of his life. And when he passes on to that final boiler-room, someone else will proudly keep using it. As technology progresses the CPU, drives, display, will probably all be replaced, but the housing will remain. How many Dells or Apples will somebody else have gone through in all those years?
So as far as lifestyle, a lot of it boils down to me as what Greens would call appropriate technology. That's a lot broader than most folks definition of steampunk... I'm not a Neo-Victorian. I pick and choose my lifestyle accouterments from many eras, finding what fits me best, not what anyone else thinks I should have. Perhaps I like a little more punk with my steam than most.
If you couldn't guess from my handle and avatar, I like some whimsy and phantasy in my steampunk as well. Timelessness, elegance, etiquette: these things seem almost absurdly stuffy to modern values. And there was a lot of stuffiness, snobbery, and repression in the Victorian era. Phantasical elements, a sense of humor, especially about oneself, are very important to me to counteract that.
Artistically, well, steampunk is just very inspiring to me. I'm new to the inspiration, it's still infecting my artistic sensibilities. I've only begun one steampunk project, customizing my vintage Vespa with a thematic look, and that's developing slowly.
As a painter though, the previously mentioned emphasis on craft is extremely appealing. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a lot of "modern art." But in art especially, we as a culture have sacrificed technique and craft in favor of the "original idea". Ultimately, I'd prefer to look at something that was an original idea and was exquisitely crafted. But if forced to choose between a sloppily executed original idea, and a exquisitely crafted painting that was yet another version of some tableau from Greek myth... Leda and the Swan would win every time.
Even on Second Life, our group is quite varied if you ask them what steampunk is. The most general "bins" you could fit us all into is "Victorian" and "early 20th century" And it's not so much that these are labels, as they are more like flavors of the same ice cream. I am in complete agreement with the "damn the man" attitude, as I think that is the most solid thing that links us to our unlikely sister culture Cyberpunk. As for "punks with etiquette" I am also in agreement, etiquette and education.
I also think a lot of us understand that once machines were refined from their crude beginnings they became stylish and pretty. So why wouldn't our modern computer age do the same? Now that mechanics are place art may flourish. What is the point of all these new fangled gadgets if one can't look spiffing using them!
Just some random thoughts, I hope they were to your liking.
Quote from: S.Sprocket on February 24, 2007, 06:23:24 PM
Even on Second Life, our group......
What is the point of all these new fangled gadgets if one can't look spiffing using them!
Amen!! ha ha I love it and its so so true.
I was thinking of giving second life a go....is it worth it you think?
It would cool to know who here has a 2nd life account.
I set one up some time back but for some reason my firewall keeps locking me out.
Tinker Girl I understand it has had some trips there.
For me,
I don't really picture Steampunk as a subculture, more as an extention of pre-existing groups such as Neo-Victorians.
I do wholly support the idea, but I find it hard to envision such a thing. When I started doing my Steampunk projects, I was aware of a small group of people that were also interested in the same things, but at that time I had not heard of any of the wonderful craftsman/ladies out there in the ether. But now I rally do see the foundations of a steampunk subculture forming. It is fascinating to me, but at the same time I fear the assimilation of it by the larger forces of media and the curse of hot-topic. It's already started, and it's only a matter of time before it becomes the new fad for the coming generation.
At least we know there will always be those of us that really have a deep love for the genre and see it as much more than a passing fad.
One of the points both Datamancer and Honky-Tonk Dragon have made really hits home. It's the rejection of the idea of planned obsolescence. During the last decade and a half, I have had the same conversation with my husband. It revolves around my lamentation of the loss of craftsmanship in the goods I have to buy. I would pay a lot more for everyday mundane items if I knew the craftmanship was beautiful, functional, and would last. I guess that is what, in part, draws me to the ideas inherent to the era.
I suppose we could all arbitrarily try to set boundaries on the edges of what we view the genre, but in the end it would be fruitless. We all see it differently. I see it as a hands on tinkering filled with brass cogs, and machines made to last a lifetime. I had no idea there were others that held similar ideas to my own until recently. I just watched projects from MAKE, instructables, and stumbled on brass goggles when I was researching pictures for my own goggle project. I am overjoyed to find others working on projects in the same vein, and am pleased by the discovery of similar ideologies.
After being embroiled in Steampunk since the late 90's, thinking about this matter of Steampunk subculture for a while now and having a row about this on my Yahoo Group, I find myself still drawn to the definition I kind of glommed onto 6 or 7 years ago:
Steampunks are people who like the genre of Steampunk.
That's all.
Some like it enough to dress up in Steampunk costumes, or make music with Steampunk themes or videos, or decorate their houses with Neo-Victorian stuff. That's just the extreme end of the fandom. But in terms of shared values, beliefs, etc... Nah, we just all like crazy Victorian gadgets and stories about them.
I don't agree, Cory. I think it is just too soon to know. Many subcultures have shared beliefs and social traits. Steampunks are just now networking enough with each other for the culture to start fleshing out. I think, very soon, cultural values will emergence (such as one obvious value on recycling junk into treasure).
I've watched it happen (although in an unexprectedly rapid fashion) with my other interest group, conlangers. And with minority to which I belong, which has gained an open and defined culture over this past century.
While defining steampunk in such general terms is correct, I doubt it can be the final definition.
Not everyone shares the value or technical ability of recycling junk into treasure. Or a rough and ready rejection of modern consumer aesthetics... Steampunk is phenominally consumeristic and some people's idea is just riding the 20,000 Leagues ride at Disneyland.
To be honest, I think the primary problem that any supposed Steampunk culture has is illustrated by the comparison to Cyberpunk: you can pass-off Cyberpunk as a legitimate subculture because it is fundamentally an aesthetic of the computer age, which is present and accounted for and vital. Yes much of it is contrived (the tubing on my girlfriend's hairfalls is metalic painted plastic), but it's still current.
Steampunk is saddled with the problem that its fundamental premise is the Victorian Era of Jules Verne... Its based on a past never actually existed. As much as we want to dress it up with every other philosophical gloss we can think of to make it more than it is, it's still make-believe, cosplay, dressup... Victorian Adventurers in a Past that Wasn't.
The advance of the Victorian aesthetic is, as Josh pointed out, Neo-Victorianism. It's applying Victorian aesthetic principles to otherwise wholly modern technology, like my CD-player stereo that looks like an old time radio. Yes you can put a box on your computer that makes it look like it's powered by coal, but it isn't (at least, not directly). It's just costuming appliances and calling it "Steampunk", just like we costume ourselves and call it "Steampunk". But those nuts and bolts in my arm in my avatar photo are rubber attached with liquid latex.
The more interesting question to me is not if Steampunk carries some particular social dogma, or can be made to, but rather why people want it to. I suspect that it might have a lot to do with the relatively recent and strong infusion of influence from people in alternative subcultures like Goth, Punk and Rivet who want to transfer that "alternativeness" to Steampunk and make it more than it actually is.
First post here, so be nice.
Anyway, to me, i don't consider myself a steampunk. I consider steampunk the style of machines, of cogs, wheels and coal. To me being a steampunk sounds a bit unattainable. What i really think steampunk is, is like what those wonderful people at steampunkmagazine.com are doing. There punk, but they've taken a little bit of interest in machines, and steampunk gadgets, and started to produce a magazine about it in a 'stick it to the man' way.
I don't listen to steampunk music, 'cuz i don't think any of them sound particularly punky, however they've all got these great instruments and whatnot, and other members of the community consider them steampunk.
And thats really what i think steampunk is: diversity, not everyone being the same.
Now anybody is crossposting here, I'll join and answer the same question again:
***
I don't know... I'm involved in the pagan community (heathens, wicca and so on) and your definition of "a steampunk lifestyle" fits to the pagan community as wel, except for the "Victorian sensibility" that can easily be renamed "Celtic sensibility" or "Viking sensibility", just according to which pagan you ask. Obsession with tech swapped with magic and the picture is more or less complete. However, not each steampunk has a love for steam-techniques, the item is never discussed anywhere.
Said that, I am also involved in some other sub-cultures like Goths and true punks, and it is basically all the same.
I'd say, steampunks are modern people like anyone else who get their inspiration from either the Victorian age and/or steam technology, and might be "rivet-heads on brass".
I never ever met anyone with a steampunk life-style. I think the lifestyle is limited to fashion statements and home-decoration, and a love for a certain kind of gothic/industrial music. It's pretty limited for a life.
What I would fit into my livestyle is the fact that I go to many steam-events and it is my wish to be educated to drive a steam-engine. Get my hands dirty, and most probably everything else too.
***
@ VonSlatt:
QuoteA steampunk p0wns his machines, he's not p0wnd by them as so many modern day muggles are.
That's the classic definition of a hacker. And yes, cyberpunk is a synonym to hacker. A steampunk is a hacker who works with steam. Easy as that. But I don't think being a hacker is a lifestyle. I've met many, but they are all different.
@ Mr Payphone:
QuoteMy role is the blacksmith, not the lord of the manor. But who will be the servants? And who will be the street urchins? My guess is that street urchin is an excellent way to be a steampunk when you don't have any money.
I agree. Another name for street-urchin would be "punk". I think these come the closest to steampunks.
In the book Gothic by Richard Davenport-Hines it is explaned why the lords and ladies are as much dependant on their servants as the other way around. You can't be a master without having slaves, and you can't be a slave without a master. That is how Victorian society worked.
In sleeping on it, I'll throw this one out there:
- I run and do most of the writing for one of the major Steampunk websites around.
- Steampunk movies in my collection are only outnumbered by black-and-white horror movies, and I have almost enough DVDs to fuel an alternative video rental store.
- While most of my clothing is typical Gothy black stuff, I dress up like a Victorian mad-aristocrat at Goth-Industrial events (see my avatar photo) and made myself t-shirts that say "Steampunk" and "my other carriage is horseless" with a picture of a Model-T.
- My room (amidst my roommates) is fairly typical Neo-Victorian... My ironwork canopy bed has a red paisly bedspread with a Hudson's Bay Company point blanket and a Classic Pooh doll at the foot. Both my bookcase and my curio cabinet are Neo-Victorian rosewood and filled with assorted fossils, toys, The Lost World (1925 version) memorabelia, and other Steampunk/Victorian brik-a-brak. I also have a pretty fetching collection of antique books and reproduction postcards of Victorian photos (mostloy Western Canadian history-related). I have a giant antique-looking globe which mostly shelves fossils. I have several posters of Pre-Raphaelite paintings and a framed attraction poster for the Mark Twain Riverboat at Disneyland. My CD-player/stereo/turntable looks like an old-time radio. And the list goes on...
- I make sepia-toned silent movies with my camcorder that are almost always about historical subjects and usually involve steam trains somehow.
- Most of my vacation and day-off activities are planned around going to historic sites, museums or antiquing. I'm planning a trip to the Grand Canyon motivated primarily by the steam train that runs down there, and a trip to Tokyo motivated in no small part by the 20,000 Leagues rides at DisneySea (and mostly, to be fair, by a pre-Steampunk love affair with Japanese culture).
- I actually have a BA in Museum and Heritage Studies.
- If my current path of becoming an ordained Lutheran minister doesn't pan out, then my next dream is to own and opperate a silent movie theatre.
And the list goes on and on. But the question is: does this qualify as a Steampunk lifestyle? Why or why not?
jon stumbles in, wide eyed and startled... i just sort of like copper, brass , bronze and not just doing things as they need to be but with art too.... Jon wanders off to the shed to bash a bit of copper pipe into a bowl....
(It's ok, sidecar_jon - don't worry. Just another part of the mutifaceted world of people interested in brass and copper. Some like to debate. ;) )
Well, what I did was go and see how they defined 'lifestyle'. While Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle) isn't the be all and end all of information, it helped me get an idea of where to start:
QuoteIn sociology, a lifestyle is the way a person (or a group) lives. This includes patterns of social relations, consumption, entertainment, and dress. A lifestyle typically also reflects an individual's attitudes, values or worldview.
Having a specific "lifestyle" can be described as patterns of behavior based on alternatives given and how easy it is to make this choice over others given.
So, at least by that definition (and I am dubious of the quality of that Wikipedia entry, but hey ho) you automatically have 'a' lifestyle - defined by your choices.
Your consumption, entertainment and dress could all be considered heavily Steampunk influenced, or otherwise Victorio-Fictional (let's not get embroiled in the finer details of a Steampunk definition). The social relations side has you associating with other people who are interested in Steampunk topics, but to what extent is known only by you (and the importance of that aspect of 'lifestyle', I'm not too convinced about).
The attitudes, values and worldviews are harder to classify as Steampunk influenced or not. I mean, there's been umpteen studies into people being influenced by the media they consume, but usually just to say whether or not someone becomes more or less violent - not whether they aquire the attitudes, values or worldviews of that media. Couple that with the fact that the attitudes, values and worldviews associated with Steampunk haven't yet been set out or agreed apon (either officially or subconsiously) and I'm not sure you can say that anyone definitely has the attitudes, values or worldviews
of Steampunk.
Long story short - I'd say you're half way there, and probably as far as anyone could be at the moment. If Steampunk continues to grow and be defined by the people interested in it, then we might look back 10 years from now and say that you were living the Steampunk lifestyle, but didn't know it.
I think the important thing is that you've made decisions that have been influenced by your wish to maximise your interaction with Steampunk things (as currently defined).
Random question at the end of all that waffle then - can someone define a wellknown 'lifestyle' so we could compare the tickboxes?
*Is now ready to be shot down in flames.*
Quote from: Cory on February 25, 2007, 04:15:29 PM
But the question is: does this qualify as a Steampunk lifestyle? Why or why not?
No it doesn't to me. It's neither steam nor punk, and steampunk isn't about who is able to buy the most vintage stuff. A way of life is not "having the money to buy a way in".
Quote from: yaghish on February 25, 2007, 05:26:39 PM
Quote from: Cory on February 25, 2007, 04:15:29 PM
But the question is: does this qualify as a Steampunk lifestyle? Why or why not?
No it doesn't to me. It's neither steam nor punk, and steampunk isn't about who is able to buy the most vintage stuff. A way of life is not "having the money to buy a way in".
Then what really does qualify as a "steampunk lifestyle"? What is a "steampunk lifestyle" in the first place?
The reason I ask this is that steam and tinkering are essentially how I grew up, and it heavily affects the way I still live. I do boiler maintenance for a living, it's the family business. I grew up with my father rebuilding steam trains, casting huge gears to run antique merry-go-rounds, and the like. It got to where he wouldn't go to train museums anymore because whenever he went (if they found out who he was), they'd pester him to distraction about finding (or building) parts for them and things of that nature. I remember going on trips to find vacuum tubes to rebuild our old shortwave and AM radio that was bigger than I was when I was a kid. He still runs the family business, although there are far, far fewer steam trains and things of that nature around now than there were even when I was a kid (and I'm only 30).
I prefer cherry wood, brass and copper fittings, and the like, but there is just as much injection-molded plastic in my house as any other modern home (to think of it, brass and copper were very much the "plastics" of that era, but that's another post entirely). So, what is the "steampunk lifestyle"? Is it just neo-victorian tinkers and machinery fetishists? Or is it more? Does it blend with modern technology or reject it? Or is it all of these things, that being the reason it's so difficult to define?
Quote from: Tinkergirl on February 25, 2007, 04:51:25 PM
...can someone define a wellknown 'lifestyle' so we could compare the tickboxes?
a "checklist" from wiki:
A common way of understanding culture sees it as consisting of four elements that are "passed on from generation to generation by learning alone":
1. values;
2. norms;
3. institutions;
4. artifacts.
From what I can see (in my humanly limited vision), #1 and #2 are still very nascent, and #3 exists only on the internet (in any large fashion). #4 being the most well developed portion. We have the "stuff" part nailed. We haven't quite coalesced a standard set of values or norms (though I do believe there are some).
Quote from: yaghish on February 25, 2007, 05:26:39 PM
No it doesn't to me. It's neither steam nor punk, and steampunk isn't about who is able to buy the most vintage stuff. A way of life is not "having the money to buy a way in".
High-idealed as that view is, history is full of people buying their way into a cultural set... right or wrong as it may be.
In terms of lifestyle I just want to bring up dressing the part. I for one would feel pretty darn silly walking around with a top hat with goggles, walking stick, vest and pocketwatch....to go to the local McDonalds or to the Mall, or the movies. It seems delusional, to a point....like someone, who wants to be Goth, buying a long coat from Hot topic and thinking to themselves "Im soooo Goth"....I speak from experience :(
The top hat (or Bowler) and fancy clothes and goggles (as much as I love them) are clubwear and fancy nightwear (to me at least), casual everyday wear can be other things. Like thick coardy sweaters, and long overcoats, scarves and wool gloves (preferably fingerless ;))for cold weather. Shoes could be black and natural leather boots (I like clunky steel toed boots, myself), and belts, with silver or brass spikes and studs or really whatever, thats for the individual to decide. But basically casual Victoriana dress wear....or rather the modern day IDEA of casual Victoriana dress wear filtered through modern or post modern ideals....(hense the "punk")
Eyewear is easy, either small Victorian-esque spectacles, or just look to Thomas Dolby for inspiration, he wears some awesome glasses (I love the side shades)
Personally I like natural materials, Im not a big fan of spandex, mylar, or space age polymers..you know? (I like to layer). Keep it wool, cotton, denim, and anything pre WW1 that is still around today, which it all is....
But I dont want to turn this into a how-to-do list of how to dress Victorian-y in the modern world...all Im saying is that you can dress the part, look quite fetching, and yet not stand out and look like a goof.
"Im soooo Steampunk" :D
Id love to hear everyones opinion on this! Am I chasing the Dragon?
You'd have to ask Honky-Tonk about that one, but I digress.
I can agree with the whole "tophat and goggles" being the extreme end of 'dressed up' for any kind of situation - personally, I've struggled with the whole "what to wear" thing for a while, but I do find that I've taken to wearing a lot more anklelength skirts (surprisingly warm in the winter) and I'm practically never seen without my tall brown leather (but not highheeled - that would be impractical) boots - despite the fact they're held together with nothing more than hope and very strong araldite right now. Good grief - that'll be a run on sentence then. Deep breath.
Quote from: The Infernal Mr Adams on February 25, 2007, 06:28:56 PM
In terms of lifestyle I just want to bring up dressing the part. I for one would feel pretty darn silly walking around with a top hat with goggles, walking stick, vest and pocketwatch....to go to the local McDonalds or to the Mall, or the movies. It seems delusional, to a point....like someone, who wants to be Goth, buying a long coat from Hot topic and thinking to themselves "Im soooo Goth"....I speak from experience :(
The top hat (or Bowler) and fancy clothes and goggles (as much as I love them) are clubwear and fancy nightwear (to me at least), casual everyday wear can be other things. Like thick coardy sweaters, and long overcoats, scarves and wool gloves (preferably fingerless ;))for cold weather. Shoes could be black and natural leather boots (I like clunky steel toed boots, myself), and belts, with silver or brass spikes and studs or really whatever, thats for the individual to decide. But basically casual Victoriana dress wear....or rather the modern day IDEA of casual Victoriana dress wear filtered through modern or post modern ideals....(hense the "punk")
Eyewear is easy, either small Victorian-esque spectacles, or just look to Thomas Dolby for inspiration, he wears some awesome glasses (I love the side shades)
Personally I like natural materials, Im not a big fan of spandex, mylar, or space age polymers..you know? (I like to layer). Keep it wool, cotton, denim, and anything pre WW1 that is still around today, which it all is....
But I dont want to turn this into a how-to-do list of how to dress Victorian-y in the modern world...all Im saying is that you can dress the part, look quite fetching, and yet not stand out and look like a goof.
"Im soooo Steampunk" :D
Id love to hear everyones opinion on this! Am I chasing the Dragon?
I think it can be pulled off with subtlety and panache.
A waistcoat and pocketwatch merely looks stylishly eccentric, as does a nicely curled and waxed mustache.
Of course everyone has their own idea of what the line between eccentric and goofy is...
I had short turquoise dreadlocks at the age of 32, so perhaps my line is a little further out than yours...
And no, I don't feel particularly chased. (or chaste) ::)
Actually Honky-Tonk, I don't find facial hair too extreme at all. I love a great waxed mustache, or neatly trimmed goatee, or sculpted sideburns (like I have). Arliss Loveless in the unfortunate Wild Wild West movie optimizes the somewhat "new style" of Steampunk facial hair, and that goes along perfectly with my personal belief in everyday wear.
And the dreads certainly wouldn't be out of my range of comfort....but I do know what I would and wouldn't look good in...and dreads are in the "wouldn't" column. Those and mohawks look really stupid on someone with a bald spot) :D
I think what I'm trying to say is that there are ways to dress Steampunk without screaming to world "IM STEAMPUNK! LOOK AT ME!" If its who you are, you don't need to good the extra mile to try and prove it.
But you're right, a vest and pocketwatch looks really cool, but full out dress wear, top hat, goggles, walking stick, all the time....feels somewhat forced. At least to me. I just feel like its someone trying to be something, instead of just being something...
Even Victorians didn't dress like that all the time....right? I hope I'm right :/
Mr Adams,
It sounds like we are in complete agreement, then.
Oh, and by the way... the dreads didn't look so hot on me, either...
Quote from: yaghish on February 25, 2007, 05:26:39 PM
Quote from: Cory on February 25, 2007, 04:15:29 PM
But the question is: does this qualify as a Steampunk lifestyle? Why or why not?
No it doesn't to me. It's neither steam nor punk, and steampunk isn't about who is able to buy the most vintage stuff. A way of life is not "having the money to buy a way in".
Okay then... what constitutes the authentic "Steampunk way of life" if one did not have the money or means to access books, movies, costuming or tinkering tools to "buy their way in"?
Hey Cory, When you get a chance could you list the Steampunk films in your collection? I'm trying to widen mine...unless its an ungodly amount then nevermind ;)
Currently the films I have are:
The Adventures of Mark Twain
20k under the sea
Island at the Top of the World
Wild Wild West
First Men in the Moon
City of Lost Children
I have half of Master of the World transfered from the VHS
Jasper Morello
The Great Race
Steamboy
and Around the World in 80 days
I'm feeling lurky, heh... Let me run it down by category...
From Disney I have 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Swiss Family Robinson, Around the World in 80 Days, Atlantis: The Lost Empire, Treasure Planet, Tarzan, and Island at the Top of the World. I also have the Walt Disney Treasures: Tomorrowland DVD, which has some cool stuff on it.
In anime I have the complete Escaflowne and Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water serieses, the Escaflowne movie, the Read-or-Die OVA, Spirit of Wonder DVD and VHS, Robot Carnival, the first Sakura Wars OVA.
For Imperialist Adventure films, I have Tarzan of the Apes (1919) and all 12 Tarzan films starring Johnny Weismuller, King Solomon's Mines (1937) and my favorite film of all time, The Lost World (1925). Keeping in the Pulp spirit I also have King Kong (1933) and Son of Kong, all the Max and Dave Fleischer Superman cartoons, and Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.
And in general I have Wild Wild West, The Adventures of Mark Twain, Jason and the Argonauts (for Talos), The Great Race, Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines, just about all the Universal Studios Monsters films including the period-set Bride of Frankenstein and Murders in the Rue Morgue, Frankenstein (1910), 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1916) and The Mysterious Island (1929), Jules Verne's Master of the World, Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow, a whole mess of Georges Melies films, and the recent live-action version of Peter Pan.
I also have had Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and Atlantis: Milo's Return (which I traded in), and In Search of the Castaways and Harryhausen's First Men in the Moon (which I've been trying to switch out from VHS to DVD). Once Lent is over, I'm looking forward to buying the double bill War Gods of the Deep and At The Earth's Core DVD, and I have a sneaking suspicion my girlfriend is getting me The Fabulous World of Jules Verne. I also now have unlimited acces to my girlfriend's cop[y of The Prestige too ^_^
I probably have more than this even, but that's all that's jumping to mind right now. If I remember any more, I'll let you know.
You have a most excellent collection, my friend...which reminds me, I forgot that I also have the War Gods of the Deep/At the Earths Core double bill dvd.
And Id like to get the Prestige DVD next payday :D
Quote from: vonSlatt on February 24, 2007, 01:32:52 AM
Here! Here! mod up, insightful.
For me there is a do-it-yourself, maybe techno-libertarian (small "l") ethic as well.
A steampunk p0wns his machines, he's not p0wnd by them as so many modern day muggles are.
What constitutes steampunk lifestyle? I must be honest, I didn't even know I was Steam punk until someone told me only maybe five months ago. For me it was always just my odd lifestyle.I come from four generations of Architects and boat designers, several performance classical musicians, and a couple of inventors. I was Home schooled by my parents, a pair of polymaths with attitude, who thought nothing of designing their own houses falling their own trees for lumber, building their own houses doing their own electricity,plumbing mineral tests, water filtration, building their own power generators, doing their own Hydroponics, you get the idea.
All this took place about 60 miles from civilization on a ranch located near the old bear river ghost town (which you probably have never heard of...don't feel bad).
it was an extremely strange environment combined with raw nature, constant ingenuity and the occasional redneck with a smattering of something that makes no sense at all like five old Buicks standing on their noses in the middle of the woods.
Now I live in Portland, for however brief a time until I return to school (I don't know when this will be).
I don't own any jeans or tshirts, I only own heavy wool slacks and old conductors jackets, I wear self modified safety glasses converted into sunglasses .
is that a steam punk lifestyle? I didn't know it when I was planning to install powered springs in my wingtips last year.
~Isaac
Quote from: kiskolou on February 24, 2007, 01:11:29 AM
Really, one of the things that makes steam-punk so great is how different it is to everyone, and the fact that it isn't anything in particular. You can't buy it at hot-topic. If you say you are steam-punk, you are. But what this thread is asking, is what a steam-punkian lifestyle is to you, if possible.
To me, it would be punks with etiquette. Scientific, romantic, artistic, and unique deviants that reject the molds of modern society. Victorian sensibility with modern truths (steampunks are NOT racist, imperialistic, homophobic, ect), and a bit of a fuck-the-establishment attitude. A little bit of geek thrown in, what with the obsession with clockwork and steam-tech (and lady lovelace, can't forget her). There is a general attitude of.. respect in the demeanor of my idea of a steampunkian . We don't necessarily try to be outcasts, but our refusal to let ourselves be brainwashed makes us just that often. Of course, steampunks would have different beliefs and moral codes, and scholarly debate should be encouraged, for there is a bit of truth in everything. In reality, our willingness to learn is one of the things that makes us so different. Knowledge is our form of rebellion. There is no uniform for a Steam-punk in my mind, the only thing i wear that could be considered steampunky is a wind-up pocketwatch with the gears visible (being a teenager people find this very peculiar, but maybe that is part of my attraction to it). Music-wise, it really doesn't matter, as long as it conjures up visions of airship explorations and rusty cogs. That is just my opinion however...
I agree with Kiskolou entirely, and would like to add my own reflections...
Steampunk, for me, is the best era of time that never was. It's a look, it's a story type, it's what sci fi was before shiny chrome and a galaxy far far away. I love the tinkering, and I love the intellect steampunk inspires. To me, steampunk is highly visual--it's a 'look' that things have or can be given. Goggles, gears, cogs and steam. There's a certain attitude in the creators themselves, in the people; that sort of respectful, eccentric, quietly dissident attitude that kiskolou was talking about.
Long live anachronism!
for work and everyday lounging i wear what i always wear.jeans black ts and bike boots and jacket sometimes a long leather coat.but i now sport a fine waxed moustache and every now and then i wear my suits, a bowler ,waistcoat,and pocket watch.i dont feel like its contrived i just like to have a break from the mundane that is my life .i have always enjoyed older technology.i have trouble setting up new tellies and other gizmoes but i do enjoy beating metal to make armour and other bits and bobs(ok so it might not look that good but i do enjoy myself) i make boxes and other things from papier mache a much under used method of creativity. dont know if that makes me steampunk or not .i think these things can be to over analyzed.if we all like similar things do you really have to justify yourself to anyone else.i guess what i really mean is that there cant be any real right or wrong way to be a steampunk which is why i like it .i can be steampunk and still not the same as anyone else out there.
here endeth my lecture.
ps yes i am considered eccentric by my friends and family but thats how i like it ;D
How do I work my steampunk style into my everyday clothing?
I work in an office 40 hrs a week where I have to be in business casual. Fortunately, this includes for me a wide variety of options. I am a woman but I find myself in menswear on a regular basis--today's outfit is a black pantsuit with a classic cut, a silk tie and a pocketwatch. I guess it's CORPORATE STEAMPUNK *l0lz, chuckles*. I wear a lot of pinstripes and leather boots. Dressdown Fridays for me sometimes include my most modest vintage goggles and jewelry made of lucite and dead tech. I try to repeat printed or integrated motifs in my wardrobe such as circuits and gears, because obviously a full hoopskirt and corset would be entirely inappropriate for the office. I do have a nice collection of fancy stockings and practical shoes. Long velvet vintage coats and my top hat are to some extent appropriate for me because of the cold weather and because I do work in an office--so long coat equals dressed up, not 'weirdo' as long as I keep my accessories modest.
When I do dress up steampunk, I usually don a tiny top hat and veil, a pinstriped corset, some sort of handmade skirt, goggles, etc. I am not afraid to wear these clothes out to a cheap, dank, local dive or to a fine restaurant. I often crossdress too--I own a very nice Edwardian tuxedo scavenged off of Ebay for mere pennies and altered by my tailor for length. I make my own ascots out of tattered fabric scraps. When things tear, I stitch them back together or pin them and hope for luck. I try to sew as much as I can, buy secondhand as often as I can, and if I can't make my own garments, I look for handmade online--supporting small businesses and artists is positive.
My day-to-day steampunk garments look more aristocratic than I'd like, but I must keep up appearances in order to hold my job.
I would like to have clothing that works somehow--that has its own internal machinery so that it is doubly useful but I haven't been able to entirely engineer that yet. Thoughts?
Quote from: Cory on February 25, 2007, 09:18:37 AM
Yes you can put a box on your computer that makes it look like it's powered by coal, but it isn't (at least, not directly). It's just costuming appliances and calling it "Steampunk"...
::Looks up, startled:: Whaa--hey--that was directed at me! I'm with Jon; leave me out of the whole counterculture, greater purpose/meaning mumbo jumbo. I just want to talk fancy, collect goggles, look at things with smoke stacks, and tinker about with gleaming metal!
LoL, no worries, that was just an aimless example. No singling out of you was intended ^_Q
Quote from: Jake of All Trades on February 26, 2007, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: Cory on February 25, 2007, 09:18:37 AM
Yes you can put a box on your computer that makes it look like it's powered by coal, but it isn't (at least, not directly). It's just costuming appliances and calling it "Steampunk"...
::Looks up, startled:: Whaa--hey--that was directed at me! I'm with Jon; leave me out of the whole counterculture, greater purpose/meaning mumbo jumbo. I just want to talk fancy, collect goggles, look at things with smoke stacks, and tinker about with gleaming metal!
Hey everybody!! their going to have a DUEL!!!
LoL, no duels here!
Though I have been thinking about hanging up my goggles for a bit, since I'm apparently just a poser who thinks they can buy their way into Steampunk by watching movies and stuff ^_Q
Cory, believe me, 99.99% of us don't belive that in the slightest, and the opinions of individual members of the Steampunk Forum here, shouldn't be seen as anything more than just that - individual opinions.
Personally, I think you're definitely one of the most Steampunk people around - though, to be quite frank, there's so many now popping out of the woodwork I fear for my own Steampunishness. *laughs* You're quite safe though.
Quote from: rococoboy on February 26, 2007, 11:47:05 AM
Respectful, eccentric, quietly dissident attitude that kiskolou was talking about.
Long live anachronism!
That was exactly what i was going for. Thank you.
Quote from: Tinkergirl on February 27, 2007, 08:39:37 PM
Cory, believe me, 99.99% of us don't belive that in the slightest, and the opinions of individual members of the Steampunk Forum here, shouldn't be seen as anything more than just that - individual opinions.
Personally, I think you're definitely one of the most Steampunk people around - though, to be quite frank, there's so many now popping out of the woodwork I fear for my own Steampunishness. *laughs* You're quite safe though.
That's exactly what
I was going for! Shocking that we agreed on something ;) Please, Cory, don't leave us! I think you're being far too critical of yourself...
And no, I wish not to duel with Cory--I'd much rather make a weapon than use one ;D
Me?
Well, I still stand when a lady enters the room (though, for some reason, I've been chided for it) I open doors for them, when polite, and I refuse a seat when there will be a lady forced to stand. (except when prevented from doing so for medical reasons [crushed vertebre, stab wound to the leg, and shattered shin have all be reasons in the past])
I carry a pocketwatch, it's wind up, silver and bras, with visible clockwork.
I respect and listen to my elders. One of the best friends I ever had, God rest him, was a 90 year old man, me 16 at the time. He had stories to tell. Real ones. It was better than television ever could be.
I'd rather read than watch a film, write with a pen on a piece of paper than send an email, and I'd rather look into your eyes and shake your hand than speak down a telephone.
I dress decently. I try to look clean, even if I am a little more bearded than is fashionable.
I've been told I talk funny, I say "sir" and "ma'am" and "myself as well" instead of "me too."
I work on old clocks, but I'm not very good at it.
I Rebel by being a decent, polite, and educated Young Man (if I do say so myself...) at least, I try to be.
And I build things from other, broken things, that I find or buy.
I may be a little crazy.
Whats my point?
Oh, yes. Anyway, I think that I classify myself as a steampunk with some diesel influences, lately, (I do so love to catagorize myself), and, if I am "Steam" then living the way i do, is what being a punk is all about, for me, personally, myself.
I fully expect it to be different for everyone.
But, then again, I may be wrong.
Your Humble
--Dreamsmith
P.S. I never started this :gestures grandly: with the idea of becoming part of a specific sub-culture. I just did it, and was happy to find like minded individuals to chat with. I don't think that makes the kind of sense that i want it to, but I cant word any of the previous message any better. Believe me, I've tried.
Quote from: Dreamsmith on February 28, 2007, 08:02:55 AM
Me?
Well, I still stand when a lady enters the room (though, for some reason, I've been chided for it) I open doors for them, when polite, and I refuse a seat when there will be a lady forced to stand. (except when prevented from doing so for medical reasons [crushed vertebre, stab wound to the leg, and shattered shin have all be reasons in the past])
I carry a pocketwatch, it's wind up, silver and bras, with visible clockwork.
I respect and listen to my elders. One of the best friends I ever had, God rest him, was a 90 year old man, me 16 at the time. He had stories to tell. Real ones. It was better than television ever could be.
I'd rather read than watch a film, write with a pen on a piece of paper than send an email, and I'd rather look into your eyes and shake your hand than speak down a telephone.
I dress decently. I try to look clean, even if I am a little more bearded than is fashionable.
I've been told I talk funny, I say "sir" and "ma'am" and "myself as well" instead of "me too."
I work on old clocks, but I'm not very good at it.
I Rebel by being a decent, polite, and educated Young Man (if I do say so myself...) at least, I try to be.
And I build things from other, broken things, that I find or buy.
I may be a little crazy.
Whats my point?
Oh, yes. Anyway, I think that I classify myself as a steampunk with some diesel influences, lately, (I do so love to catagorize myself), and, if I am "Steam" then living the way i do, is what being a punk is all about, for me, personally, myself.
I fully expect it to be different for everyone.
But, then again, I may be wrong.
Your Humble
--Dreamsmith
P.S. I never started this :gestures grandly: with the idea of becoming part of a specific sub-culture. I just did it, and was happy to find like minded individuals to chat with. I don't think that makes the kind of sense that i want it to, but I cant word any of the previous message any better. Believe me, I've tried.
I wanted to say this same thing but it just wasn't coming out quite right. It doesn't completely encapsulate my views but it deffinately encompasses a large part of them.
I think there is something to this "rebelling by not being rebellious".. ;)
Perhaps we can culturally sabotage some cultural saboteurs while were at it.
I suppose what I am saying is that I support this view, and it's a damn site rarer than rudeness, a lacking in ethical character, and a rejection of dignity.
*good show*
~Ike
Thank you for the support, Kind Sir.
In all honesty, it comes as a relief. For some reason, I was harbouring great fear that my vies would be opposed, and derided.
I am happy to see that I feared for naught, Patasapien.
As I mentioned in the end of my post script, and as you so eloquently said in a far clearer fashion, I wasn't able to find the words to say all I wanted to, there is more that while my heart may understand, my mind cannot put words to.
Anywho, I feel that i am rambling, and I find myself longing for bed after a long 48 hours without seeing it. So, It's goodnight for me. I'll be back tomorrow.
Again, thank you.
Your Humble
--Dreamsmith
My fellow colleagues.
After musing for some time, using my Elektro-powered Combined Thought condenser and Smoking Cap.
For I may have found a solution to our woes. Would one might be so bold as to suggest using of the term "Steamers" as a cover-all of all genres of Steampunk
Quote from: Mercury Wells on February 28, 2007, 12:45:48 PM
My fellow colleagues.
After musing for some time, using my Elektro-powered Combined Thought condenser and Smoking Cap.
For I may have found a solution to our woes. Would one might be so bold as to suggest using of the term "Steamers" as a cover-all of all genres of Steampunk
Ah, I do fear Mr. Wells that "Steamers" is taken. I have the privilege of growing up near where some of the first mass production steam powered car were made, the Stanley Steamer, and there are a lot of groups and vehicles here refferred to as "Steamers". Not to mention that, this being the New England seacoast, "steamers" is also also used to describe steamed clams.
I'm happy with being a Teslarian Contraptor, myself!
I applaud the fine individuals who are placing an emphasis on civility and etiquette.
Personally, I am finding the discussions here and in the "steampunk isn't punk" thread, quite interesting, though I hope we can all keep that aforementioned emphasis in mind.
There will be times when we as refined adults will be forced to "agree to disagree."
Still at the core, I think much of the contention is of semantics, though there are some insecurities.
I have them myself. I am not a maker. But I applaud the DIY folks, and hope to derive some inspiration and education from them.
Were I to ever have full steampunk drag, I'm sure it would cobbled together from store bought items, things purchased directly from fine artisans, and things I will have scavenged, made, or modified myself...
Actually, thinking about it I could come pretty close now, as some of these kinds of items have been integrated into my lifestyle for sometime.
It is only recently that I have begun to think of them as steampunk, even though eons ago I used to sport a brocade waistcoat I'd made myself when I went out to the punk club...
Another thought about steampunk as subculture... Has anyone read Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age?
Not exactly steampunk, though there is an interesting frisson of steampunk and cyberpunk elements. I bring it up, however for the element of Phyles. Stephenson takes the cyberpunk concept of corporations becoming more important than nations, and runs with it, turns it on culture. Phyles are like cultures, or subcultures, without borders. There is even a Neo-Victorian one.
This is somewhat how I see steampunk "culture," at least at this point. I'd wager most of us on this board have seen precious few other steampunks in the flesh. In my area, there are no steampunk establishments, or gatherings. (Although, if I crawled out of my den and made it to Portland or Seattle more often, I might find something.)
But I do feel a sense of camaraderie with the fine gentles on this board. My exposure to a lot of these topics has been catch as catch can, so I'm learning a lot from the company here. Even when I find myself on a particular pole of some debate's dichotomy, generally details are the points of contention, and I have the utmost respect not only for the opponent's aesthetic, but for their passion for it.
Thank you for your indulgence, this rant is completed.
;)
How wonderfully put.
Quote from: Honky-Tonk Dragon on February 28, 2007, 03:54:27 PM
There will be times when we as refined adults will be forced to "agree to disagree."
Not everyone here is an adult, but the point still stands ;D
My thought is this:
By attempting to rigidly define steampunk as a culture (or indeed, doing so to any lifestyle) merely promotes elitism.
In my humble opinion, it will merely cause those who feel that they are "True Steampunks" and they will call others, as worded by whoever said so about Sir Datamancer, "not steampunk enough."
It is all well and good to have your own definition of steampunk and what it entails, it is even nice to share it with us. I, at least, am interested in hearing everyones view.
But, while forcing a specific view onto someone else is very Victorian, it is not very gentlemanly, nor is it sporting.
So, as said by those before me, we may just have to agree to disagree.
Indeed, it mayhap that that is the only solution that is workable in the long run.
To say it simply, though, Let the culture define itself. Cultures are good at letting that happen, and it will happen, in time.
Now that parts of my view have been stated on two separate occasions...
:Dons flame-retardant suit:
Let's hear yours!
Your faithful servant
--Dreamsmith
How about steampunk as community?
Community is more warm and fuzzy...but id say that it is the more correct word.
Oh, indeed. I feel we are already on our way toward forming a very healthy community, in as much as a community can be one without living in close approximation to one another.
It would seem that we have our leaders, our celebrities, our debaters, scholars, philosophers, commentarist, troublemakers, etc. We have more than our share of Artist, it would seem, in a variety of mediums.
Our Steampunk Society is rich with members to fill all the above niches. And we intereact in what is mostly a pleasing and smooth-running fashion.
I find the steampunk community to be highly educated, helping, and, basically, just a blast to hang out with. Trust me, if you all weren't good conversation, I'd have hit the road long ago. I'm here for the interaction. And, isn't that what community is all about?
Garrg... the wording above doesn't quite feel right...
Am I making sense? Like, good sense? :-\
Ok as much as I was opposed to the idea of a Steampunk subculture, I think a Steampunk Community is perfect.
Though I really don't know if we need leaders persay? I mean we are all just hanging out online chatting and sharing ideas. Maybe you could say that those of us that have been into this genre for a long time could be considered mentors?? I just don't like using a word like leader or elder. It denotes some kind of superiority, which I for one don't seek here.
Exactly! Thank you VernianProcess, Mentors does fit much better.
I am a full supporter of a Steampunk Community. I think that it is a marvelous thing.
That said, though, I have nothing against it as a culture, if it develops that way. Right now, The genre is still to new to have a set-universal definition, if ever it will. And trying to force one is bad business.
Community though, Community is what we are. And it is a good thing.
...In my humble opinion.
Yours,
--the Dreamsmith
Once again... Culture is fine, Subculture is not.
Because if we are a subculture, than what are we a part of? Science Fiction?? That's too broad.
By saying steampunk culture, it leaves it pretty open to interpretation.
Quote from: VernianProcess on March 01, 2007, 08:14:23 AM
Once again... Culture is fine, Subculture is not.
Because if we are a subculture, than what are we a part of? Science Fiction?? That's too broad.
By saying steampunk culture, it leaves it pretty open to interpretation.
Ah, I think I get it (finally) You are saying that, to call it a subculture, we would have to be defined by the larger culture as well. Or something similar. We would be an off-shoot of the Primary Culture.
We can't go sci-fi, cause that doesn't exactly fit, and to suggest that we are an offshoot of punk opens up a rather large can of rather nasty worms.
Still, my own view (which I've stated a thousand times, and would never force on anyone else) is that, yes, we are independent from the Punk and SciFi "cultures," even if we do occasionally draw inspiration from them. However, as independent as we are, at best we are a proto-culture. We are a culture still developing its morals, mores, and values.
So, that said, I think that you can attempt to live a steam-lifestyle (I actually applaud those of you who do) I even think that we can participate in a Steampunk community (as we are) but I am uncertain as to whether or not we have a fully defined "culture"
But, I'd be the first to say that I may be wrong.
After all, I am a new kid on the block.
Thank you, Kind Sirs and Madams, for your time.
Your humble
--Dreamsmith
Well, Huzzah!!
;D
I'd say we have community, though still young.
The culture is still forming. Perhaps culture takes longer to mature than community, since it seems some aspects in the development of a culture are dependant on having a community that is mature enough to nurture it.
Just a theory.
I wholeheartedly agree - the Steampunk Community is alive and well ;D
QuoteIt would seem that we have our leaders, our celebrities, our debaters, scholars, philosophers, commentarist, troublemakers, etc. We have more than our share of Artist, it would seem...
And more important than all of those put together, we have everyone else who may not leap into the stagelights - every member here and on all the other forums and sites out there, even if they seldom say anything.
I notice we have no chefs though - surely we must be a very hungry community by now... *chuckles*
I have robot slaves to do my cooking... seriously though, isn't this what I was saying about an emergent culture earlier?
Quote from: vonSlatt on February 28, 2007, 02:47:04 PM
Quote from: Mercury Wells on February 28, 2007, 12:45:48 PM
My fellow colleagues.
After musing for some time, using my Elektro-powered Combined Thought condenser and Smoking Cap.
For I may have found a solution to our woes. Would one might be so bold as to suggest using of the term "Steamers" as a cover-all of all genres of Steampunk
Ah, I do fear Mr. Wells that "Steamers" is taken. I have the privilege of growing up near where some of the first mass production steam powered car were made, the Stanley Steamer, and there are a lot of groups and vehicles here refferred to as "Steamers". Not to mention that, this being the New England seacoast, "steamers" is also also used to describe steamed clams.
I'm happy with being a Teslarian Contraptor, myself!
Thank you to VonSlatt for correcting me, with his very consice infomation :)
Quote from: Tinkergirl on March 01, 2007, 10:46:22 PM
I wholeheartedly agree - the Steampunk Community is alive and well ;D
QuoteIt would seem that we have our leaders, our celebrities, our debaters, scholars, philosophers, commentarist, troublemakers, etc. We have more than our share of Artist, it would seem...
And more important than all of those put together, we have everyone else who may not leap into the stagelights - every member here and on all the other forums and sites out there, even if they seldom say anything.
I notice we have no chefs though - surely we must be a very hungry community by now... *chuckles*
I bet they are out there somewhere...
perhaps it deserves a thread?
I think that we could be asking is:- Does Steampunk make us or do we make Steampunk?
After consideration, this is what I can conclude from my observations:
1. A major theme among those of the Steampunk persuasion are those that greatly enjoy building and changing things to fit their personal taste. (A backlash against todays prepackaged society perhaps)
2. Many people exist as a Steampunk (or some variation on that theme) but do no realize that there are like-minded individuals like them out there, or that they were indeed "Steampunks".
As such, most come to this subculture with their own particular "brand". Having come, and found out that there is indeed something called Steampunk, they do what comes naturally and modify/change it to fit their own tastes and aesthetics. Thus it would be fruitless to try to proclaim a rigid set of rules to what exactly is Steampunk as most individuals like to bend the rules anyways. There are those who are interested in dress and attire, there are those interested in gadgets and gizmo's, and those further still interested in the literature, and the thought behind it. However, we all share a similar theme, and find inspiration in eachother. I liken it to the Zen concept of Dharma transmission. We all share a dream/vision but none of us can define it very well because we only know it when we see it. There is just that spark when we all stand in front of some boiler, or a model of an airship and just point and smile to one another, sharing the glow of that shared glimpse of our vision. We are not some great series of identical microchips all blinking to the same pulse, we are the great cogs, gears, and springs of some great machine; some big, some small, but we all work off of one another. When the one of our minds whir with the energy of discovery and inspiration, it will not be long before the whole machine will be alive and clanking along. Call that machine "Steampunk" if you will. But it's energy will power bulbs (and valves) across the world.
Well then, thats enough of a sermon for me. Terribly sorry for being so forward and all. I'll be going now.
Well said, dear sir!
Well yes, I think that is pretty much the conclusion we've all come to. I still stand by my statement that Steampunk has a solid definition, and that it shouldn't be changed to fit an individuals take on it. Of course individuals can have their own ideas of what Steampunk is, but when those ideas are presented as fact to the public, it creates great confusion.
We all have our own preferences when it comes to the Steampunk genre, but we all also must agree on a solid meaning for it. I think the one that Cory stated over in the Steampunk isn't Punk thread is the most solid one I can think of. Simply the idea of Victorian inspired Anachronism (which can be set in other time periods).
Oh, and please refer to it as a culture, not a subculture. A minor technicality, but one that saves a lot of unneeded debate.
P.S. No need for anyone else to debate this post, just needed to add my thoughts (which will remain the same no matter what anyone else has to say on the subject).
Wh..wait..wait a.. what's this?
We've come to some sort of tenuous agreement? I see nothing to contradict, nothing to... to... debate?
The debate is over?
:Gets off soapbox and starts the long walk home:
Just joking, assuredly. I am most happy that, once we get the terminology out of the way, and the basic semantics, that even if we don't all agree, per se, we can still all get along and respect each other.
And that is a sign, dear folks, of maturity within the community, if not a mature community... waith, that doesn't mean quite what I want it to... It's just we're a "young" community...
Oh, never mind. I'm much more eloquent when arguing... ;)
As always, I am your humble servant,
--the Dreamsmith
Thank you to all who contributed to this thread and the "steampunk isn't punk" thread.
Though perhaps a tedious process at first, I think these discussions have been vital to help us create a broadbased, tolerant community.
If someone who just discovered this board had the patience to slog through all of both of them, I think they would come away with a good sense of what the board is all about... and be saved the indignity of inadvertently bruising feelings and rifling feathers.
Wow. Happy endings. I'm glad to see my thread ending like this (although i'm not sure if it's fair to call it my thread anymore...). Maybe we should lock this, but keep it as a historical document?
I think it should be locked, and then stickied.
Steampunk as a Sub-Culture, I'm starting to believe it's coming into it's own as a culture in itself. Just as the American and Commonwealth nations have come from the UK, but they have have developed their own cultures, seperated by a common language (i.e. I do say, good sir, What is a billabong?).
I guess you can say I'm a recovering Rivit and over the last couple of years have been disillusioned with the scene(been enthralled since 1988 c.e.). Tired of the politics and elitist attitudes from countless hot topic clones, I've yearned for something with more substanance. Steampunk, varied as it may seem, has a rich literary, cultural and philosophical tradition. Whether your are a collier, adventurer or Aristocrat, everyone seems to be on equal footing. Politic's? Sure every culture and sub-genre has it. This is unavoidable. As a whole the politics is more tongue in cheek and never seems to get more serious than "No, no, I'm sorry to say, Darjeeling is a much more sopisticated tea than Twinnings". Because, I believe, in this modern culture of convenience and egocentric behaviour, we understand you can get further by practicing good manners and think beyond the white man's burden (of other sub cultures). So whether you are into the pomp or the circumstance you know you will always fit in and be accepted, unless you are a total bludger or a fine wirer.
I, myself, don't have the couter to wear the dunnage. None the less, I still feel a part of the culture and hope to develop it more. -_Q
Cheers!
And with that, with three people calling for this thread to be honourably locked, I will do so.
Quite a rollercoaster ride, but a very interesting one indeed. Glad it turned out well in the end.
^_Q
From time to time I have people ask me what it means to live a steampunk lifestyle and I usually can't come up with a good answer in regards to how I do it.
But tonight when opened up my computer it occurred to me that what I am doing right now at this moment should qualify as something...is it steampunk? I don't know. Probably most people wouldn't think so but of course I don't subscribe to most people.
What I am doing right now is using a brand new computer to log into a UK site while sitting in a candle lit round tower. The power has been out for an hour but a few minutes ago I went outside and started up a tiny 150 watt generator that was made shortly after WWII that I found buried in a pile of junk after my grandmother died. It was the same generator that my mother used to power a small black and white TV in order to watch the moon landing while on a fishing trip. Its just enough to power the wireless router and the low wattage LED rope light system I have on all floors of the tower.
Downstairs my girlfriend is taking a shower. This is possible because my water is supplied from a 200 gallon tank in the upstairs bedroom. The water heater is a hand built gas fired on demand system made from well casing and forty feet exposed of copper coil. Its controlled by a single brass and iron lever mounted next to the sink like a giant knife switch. In the distance I can hear the homebuilt gravity powered hydraulic ram cycling as it pumps water up from the river two hundred feet below the tower. It only pumps a gallon a minute but it does so for free 24 hours a day.
Over my fire department radio I can hear dispatch calling in police to the towns only gas station. It sounds like someone is taking advantage of the darkness and lack of power to break into the store. An hour without. power and we already have looting. I look up to the windowsill where by hand built, fully functional .89 caliber steampunk style hand cannon rests along with a bandolier of hand built copper cartridges, each one loaded with more than an ounce of black powder. Its heavy has hell and takes almost thirty seconds to reload but I imagine it would do the trick.
I look up to the calendar on the wall, its from the corset company that my girlfriend orders from, looks like she has to work tomorrow. I just got done selling a cable-welded damascus knife so I think can take a day off from the forge and the new kitchen addition I've been building. My sister down from alaska this week, I think we'll go fishing tomorrow if I can convince her that the old 1960's fiberglass canoe that I converted into a sailboat is safe.
If this goes on for too long the refrigerator may be a problem but for right now I have everything that I want. Its a mix of antique machinery, handbuilt contraptions and ultra modern technology but it all fits together and works because every component is a real function part of my life and my entire household was designed to exist on the fringe of the modern world but to also exist outside it, in its own version reality that runs on systems I built. Its not a hobby, its not an aesthetic, its a way of solving problems the uses the robust of the grid inventions of an earlier age coupled with the best aspects of the modern world.
Its barely legal, dirty, and takes a lot of work. I'm hated by my neighbors and believed to be either crazy or a drug dealer by most of the people I know. I don't have health insurance, a steady job or a retirement package. I have no idea what my credit rating is since I've never had a bank account and my debit card is an anonymous travel card that I reload with cash at the grocery store.
But Its the only way I can stand to live, anything else would bore me to death and honestly I don't understand the mundane world well enough to find any success there. All my attempts to work a normal job and rent a normal house have lead to overwhelming depression and poverty.
But here in my world I am a lord on my own manor, and tonight my house is the only one with the lights on.
Man, I don't know if it qualifies as Steampunk, but it certainly sounds unstressful! :)