The Queer Geer Mk. II: A club for the LGBQT+ crowd and friends

[Lady Coral Lesong]

Hello all,

I know that it has been awhile since I have spoken in this forum, however, I wish to convey some good news! 

As you all know, I had been struggling to pass the Bar Exam in my state. I took the exam again for the fourth time in July 2018. This time, thankfully, I finally managed to pass the wretched exam. In fact, I only needed a score of 270 and I received a score of 276. I am officially a lawyer now! I am sworn into my state's bar, and have an official license to practice law!

Now, I am currently looking for work in a law firm within my state, which is the only state I can currently practice in. I have been rejected so many times that its become annoying to read or hear the rejection letters, however, I am not giving up. I fought hard for three years to become licensed, I am willing to fight to become a working lawyer. It would be amazing to be able to help people in whatever capacity I can and, since this is my dream, I am not willing to give up on this yet.

Wish me luck!

Sincerely,
Coral Lesong, Attorney at Law

P.S.: It would be very satisfying to use my legal and chosen name and the end of this, however, I know that is not very wise, so I chose to instead use my forum name and say that I am an attorney in that way in my signature line. I just wanted to see it in print.

[Banfili]

Lady Cora, many congratulations on you new and hard one status!
Job hunting can be nasty, whatever the occupation, but have you considered some part-time pro bono work at Legal Aid or some such organisation, to get a little work experience? I had a couple of long-term unemployment 'episodes' in the past, and did some voluntary work in one of the departments in my city council - it eventuated into paid temporary work until I found a full time paid position elsewhere.

[J. Wilhelm]

Congratulations, Ms. Lesong, Esq. ! My mother passed the bar in Pennsylvania. She lives in California  Passing the nation-wide bar is possible but much more difficult, if I understand correctly. With all that is happening in the United States it should not be difficult to find a role for very long. Sadly my mother is old and sick, so that zaps her energy to find work.

[Caledonian]

*deep breath*

Okay

It's been 2 years of me struggling with myself, and I have come to realise things, about myself.
I've told my friends these things and they've been supportive. It's time I tell this wonderful community as well.

I am a nonbinary person.

[Antipodean]

Congratulations on finding the courage to come out.
I do understand how hard that can be.
A very warm hug from me.

[J. Wilhelm]

*deep breath*

Okay

It's been 2 years of me struggling with myself, and I have come to realise things, about myself.
I've told my friends these things and they've been supportive. It's time I tell this wonderful community as well.

I am a nonbinary person.

Congratulations on coming out. It's very difficult to find the courage to be honest, first with yourself and second with everyone else. It's also a tortuous self discovery process that can take many years. . It's been many years now, since I came out here at Brassgoggles as non binary /gender-fluid (2013?). And I did it very slowly, very gingerly, just throwing hints, here and there!

I knew I was different since my early teens, but back then there were no names for people like me, other than "straight crossdresser" which carries horrible connotations as a caricature for gender non conforming people. If I had come out back then people would simply assume I was just "gay" which was the only thing that the public knew back then (outside of academia), and which I never was.

Back in the late 1980s even having a gay character come out in a TV show was very "edgy" and controversial (Falcon Crest.  ). Boy George was also truly shocking (as was Bowie's Ziggy Stardust in the 1970s), but I guess there was a double standard for entertainers, who were expected to be shocking professionally, especially if they were foreigners.

I really couldn't come out or even know what to call myself until the early 2010s when a plethora of transgender and non binary people started coming out, like Andreja Peijic, and people in their teens started coming out as non binary or transgender with support from parents or their family.

So this is your time. Run with the ball and live your life! You have this historical period on your side!

[Caledonian]

Thank you both. It's difficult, because I'm not sure where to take it from here on by means of expressing myselfnand such...

[Miranda.T]

It can be incredibly difficult to go against what is considered the norm, but ultimately it is worth it - for peace of mind, for personal expression, simply just to be who you really are. As the esteemed Admiral has noted, at least it is easier now to live an 'alternative' lifestyle than it was even a decade ago, and the Steampunk community is the most accepting and open group towards such that I can imagine. As to expressing yourself, that can be rather a voyage of self-discovery - occasionally frustrating, sometimes suprising, but ultimately incredibly fulfilling.

Best wishes,
Miranda.

[Mercury Wells]

.

[Caledonian]

Thank you miranda, it is even difficult to determine what exactly I want, but I'll get there

.

Are you alright?



Related meme that seems suitable

[Caledonian]

This is probably the place to ask but has anyone got nice examples of androgynous old timey looks?

[J. Wilhelm]

This is probably the place to ask but has anyone got nice examples of androgynous old timey looks?

Historically or Steampunk? Historically, you have to look at feminism for cues; gender roles shifted somewhat in the old Wild West, but the trousers barrier was not crossed until the start of the 1920s, and the skirt hemline went significantly up at exactly the same time that hair was chopped into the boyish bob.

[Caledonian]

This is probably the place to ask but has anyone got nice examples of androgynous old timey looks?

Historically or Steampunk?

Both

Thank you, I will look at that
Cutting my hair off is something I've been considering but I like it long with dyed tips as it is now. Wonder if there is non-femine long styles I could try.

[J. Wilhelm]

This is probably the place to ask but has anyone got nice examples of androgynous old timey looks?

Historically or Steampunk?

Both

Thank you, I will look at that
Cutting my hair off is something I've been considering but I like it long with dyed tips as it is now. Wonder if there is non-femine long styles I could try.

You're not really tied to history, though.

Otherwise, from my point of view I'd say that long hair was common for men in the 19th century. All you have to do is look at Victorian Era pictures. People living in the frontier would have kept hair longer than people living in the cities, and people in Europe would have started to trim hair earlier toward the end of the 19th century than Americans, for example.

Military fashion is very important to follow, because a lot of men's fashion were influenced or derived from military fashion and vice-versa. Look at the thread on coat alterations in the anatomical section. By the latter 1/4 of the 19th century uniforms become very simple and modern looking. By the turn of the century short buzzcuts and simple collarless frock coats with no tail or lapels are the norm for most military around the world. So does the hair worn by soldiers.

On the female side, however, progress was very - visually speaking - slow; dresses and skirts went down below the ankle towards 1900,and female's hair was really long, and artistically bunned with big hats. The suffrage movement largely was headed by women wearing long skirts and big hats! But some began to simplify their dress and it's worth looking at why and how that happened. It's the late 1910s transition that you want to take a close look at, because somehow women felt much more empowered by the suffrage movement, and there was a very sharp change in fashion at the dawn of the Jazz Age.

And probably in some countries like Germany, andtthe USA you begin to see a strong fashion push "out of the bustle" so to speak. There must be better experts than me on the subject lurking about in Brassgoggles who want to chime in.

[Deimos]

"Out of the bustle" maybe 25 years early....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSxP45omwLw

[J. Wilhelm]

"Out of the bustle" maybe 25 years early....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSxP45omwLw

Oh well, I'm not referring to "ladies of the night." There was a lot less than a bustle being worn by the dancers at the Moulin Rouge, for example.  . If you want to see Parisian naughtiness circa 1890, all you have to do is look at Toulouse Lautrec's paintings (Moulin Rouge, "The Dance" , between1892—5, "The Sofa" and Woman in Front of a Mirror". You might catch one or two LGBT scenes as well ("In Bed" series, 1892)

[Deimos]

Oh, come now.....surely you know that I was jesting, having a bit of fun, you see 

[J. Wilhelm]

Oh, come now.....surely you know that I was jesting, having a bit of fun, you see  

Ohi know! We're never too serious at brassgoggles, but it's an excellent thread starter. If you look back (I don't know how many pages, circa Fall of 2013? , I had a very profound discussion on the liberation of women and a simultaneous sexual revolution that took place from the last days of Kaiser Wilhelm's reign, through the Weimar Republic, and especially Berlin in the 1920s, which became not only a hot bed of the sex industry (eg Cabaret) but a locus for the LGBQT community and scientific research on gender and sexuality issues. Fashion followed suit, and I explored that to develop my alternate ego's look (Julin Bahlmann). The nazis destroyed all that.

[Prof Marvel]

Cutting my hair off is something I've been considering but I like it long with dyed tips as it is now. Wonder if there is non-femine long styles I could try.

There are two "long" hair styles I can think of right off:
- the Legolas Elven look , pulled back of the ears

also seen in a modern cointext here


and variations on Native American, pulling the hair back and making a single braid down the back.

I have not really looked into the matter before, but I am by nature, a researcher and "wanna-be librarian" ...
so I put my laptop to work

Hmmmm....  I am somewhat frustrated by finding only what seems to be the current trend toward the "shaggy hair, shabby clothes, tomboy/girl" look...   but I did come up with these

it appears that darkening/thickening  one's eyebrows can add to the mystery


and this https://www.wikihow.com/Look-Androgynous

and apparently using "less feminine" accessories such as hats, large heavy watches, belts, shoes, etc help complete the look.

hope this helps
prof marvel

[J. Wilhelm]

Most 18th and 19th century male hair was pulled back in one way or another. There's a plethora of Victorian photos, but while male Victorian hair is considered short by present day female standards, the 1850-onward length is too long for present day male standards (which might be useful to you). Male Victorian hair was considered short back then, but it falls in the category of "Bob, " and even "longer Bob" in today's female parlance.

For truly long 19th century male hair in the civilized world (non frontier land, that is, you have to look earlier toward the regency period and prior. That's why American hairstyles stand out; frontier life, I guess, made men wear longer styles than Europeans towards the second half of the 19th century.

For present day androgynous hairstyles you might want to look in Pinterest. I find that is a great source of photos, which are grouped by subject. Just search for "androgynous look" or "androgynous models." You will find however that make to female models will tend to wear long hair, whereas female to male models will do the opposite.

Stunning examples for male to female are, Stav Strashko, Jacob Landvik, Roger Garth and Erin Mommsen (Non- Binary appearance) and of course Andreja Pejic, Hari Nef and Hunter Schafer (as Trans-women, some of them modelling androgynous, male and female style before transition). All of them with long hair

On the F to M side we have shorter hair, typically coupled with men styled clothing, as worn by Erika Linder (androgynous) and a number of female cisgender personalities like Linda Evangelista, Milla Jovovich and Scarlett Johansson who have done excellent gender bending photoshoots.

Don't forget the quintessential look of Marlene Dietrich in male tuxedo and flowing platinum hair.

You might want to look at this blog entry where a vintage clothing vendor talks about women modeling vintage men's clothing
http://chatterblossom.blogspot.com/2013/12/thursday-thrill-vintage-fashion-show.html

(Edited for numerous typos)

[J. Wilhelm]

A statement on Gender Expression, Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation

I wrote this paragraph mostly as an aid to keep nomenclature straight in a thread at the Anatomical section (related to the posts above)
http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,50787.msg1001538.html#msg1001538

I'll warn the reader beforehand, that I am old relative to the millennial crowd who sourced the current LGBQTIA+ alphabet soup nomenclature, but as a guide, I have written a paragraph below to further specify what I think about when we write about  "androgyne clothing"

Everyone is somewhere "in the spectrum." But in the spectrum between what and what, exactly? Are we talking about sexual orientation? How you feel? Or just the way you dress?

It took me many decades before I learned this information. Kids today have many resources that we did not way back in the 80s. Outside of biological and genetic "plumbing" (man, woman, intersex) there are 3 different dimensions of gender and sexuality. There is,

1) Gender Expression - the way that you feel the need to show yourself to the outside world. Do you present as feminine, masculine, androgynous?

2) Gender Identity - the way you feel about yourself. Do you feel as a boy, or girl, in between, or neither? Did you somehow feel you were in the wrong body as a child, or not at all?

3) Sexual Orientation - who are you a physically attracted to? Do you like males or females? Masculine looking people, feminine looking people? All of the above? None of the above?

It took me many decades to learn that these three dimensions are not tied at all. Most of us can find ourselves *somewhere* in between any of these 6 extremes and even totally outside of the spectrum altogether (asexual, agender, neutral). Growing up, I was not effeminate behaviourally (no mannerisms), but secretly I wanted to express femininity (conflict between (1) and (2) above). And to obscure matters further, I was only attracted to girls (conflict between (3) and (1) above), making me feel that I needed to hide a terrible secret.

Not developing physically at the same rate as the other boys, did not help my confidence with girls. I felt like a monster, who couldn't be loved. I can say with all honesty that holding to this "secret" for 2 decades (say age 15 onward) obliterated any chances I ever had of expressing myself and pursuing an intimate relationship with another human being - period. So being able to express oneself is actually very important to your development and your function in society.

[Caledonian]

I would like to add that some people prefer to add another kind of attraction as well, aside from sexual.
I for example, am not sexually attracted to anyone, but to experience romantic attraction. I fall in love, want to be hugged and take my SO on dates... But won't fall in lust, so to say. I am asexual but panromantic.
A friend of mine is sexually interested in anyone, being bisexual, but only romantically interested in guys, so she's heteroromantic.

Just to complicate things further...

[Caledonian]

Sorry for the delay replying to the style suggestions, I appreciate them all just compiling things and over thinking them for a bit

[T. C. Halloway]

Hey, friends. I haven't been on the forum in a while, but thought I'd let you know that I came out publicly at my very conservative religious private school, and I'm amazed at how well it went. Such an outpouring of love, and now I'm in a position to help other queer students navigate an environment that really wants to love all its students, but has some endemic prejudice. I engage in a lot of "queer chaplaincy", and this semester I both wore my first pride outfit and participated in my first political rally to protest recent changes to the code of conduct regarding queer couples.

I'm still navigating what it means to be a devout queer man in a heterosexual marriage. I'm treated unfairly well, especially at school, because I present very straight. But I'm finding ways to use my privilege to advocate for others in a way that's been fulfilling for me.

[Prof Marvel]

Hey, friends. I haven't been on the forum in a while, but thought I'd let you know that I came out publicly at my very conservative religious private school, and I'm amazed at how well it went. Such an outpouring of love, and now I'm in a position to help other queer students navigate an environment that really wants to love all its students, but has some endemic prejudice. I engage in a lot of "queer chaplaincy", and this semester I both wore my first pride outfit and participated in my first political rally to protest recent changes to the code of conduct regarding queer couples.

I'm still navigating what it means to be a devout queer man in a heterosexual marriage. I'm treated unfairly well, especially at school, because I present very straight. But I'm finding ways to use my privilege to advocate for others in a way that's been fulfilling for me.

Congratulations - it is gratifying to hear that such support is out there for people.
Keep on keeping on!

yhs
prof marvel