The Queer Geer Mk. II: A club for the LGBQT+ crowd and friends

[Miranda.T]

Dear Mr. Halloway, the reaction of your work colleagues is indeed very heatwarming to hear; it is so nice to have some positive news in these trying times. I have to say the 'changes to the code of conduct regarding queer couples' sounds rather ominous, though!

Yours,
Miranda.

[J. Wilhelm]

Hey, friends. I haven't been on the forum in a while, but thought I'd let you know that I came out publicly at my very conservative religious private school, and I'm amazed at how well it went. Such an outpouring of love, and now I'm in a position to help other queer students navigate an environment that really wants to love all its students, but has some endemic prejudice. I engage in a lot of "queer chaplaincy", and this semester I both wore my first pride outfit and participated in my first political rally to protest recent changes to the code of conduct regarding queer couples.

I'm still navigating what it means to be a devout queer man in a heterosexual marriage. I'm treated unfairly well, especially at school, because I present very straight. But I'm finding ways to use my privilege to advocate for others in a way that's been fulfilling for me.

Glad to hear that you found a safe and welcoming place among school mates. I trust that you mean "school code of conduct"?

These are trying times, for sure, never mind together with a pandemic and global economic meltdown. And religious ideology has expanded way beyond the pulpit. So I'm not surprised that rules are tightening.

[Caledonian]

I got a binder, but I still can very much see my chest... Disappointing

[Madasasteamfish]

#Like the Mary Ellen Carter Rise Again! Rise Again#

So I've decided to conduct my semi-usual rite of technomancy just to maybe help me reach out and find some other queer people outside my usual haunting ground of Tumblr...

For context, some time in the last year or so I actually recognised and accepted myself as a bi/panromantic asexual, and I'm interested in playing around with gender presentation in my personal life (although I'm still trying to get confident doing it in public). I'm still not out to my family (despite being openly ace on my social media) for *reasons* but it was nice having some openly queer experiences at the asylum last year.

[mizzarrogh]

Congrats! 
I am not out to my family either about my gender identity, but my yongest brother did figure it out anyway, and i long time suspected that he did but newer said anything about it, it is not that i don't think my parent would accept it, i honestly think they allredy figured it out on their own, it's just... hard to talk about this type of things in generaly for me so i fully understand why it is not the absolute first thing everybody does when coming out, i did came out on the "internet" long time ago when i was a student and i hawe always been  open with it on the internet (exacept for facebook where my parents are), but well, i assume everybody know that now i forgot to hide my log whan i payed a wisit to the local LGBTQ site and wrote a short note avbout gender identity there) ever since, but ya, it is what it is... My mother did find my dresses, and i don't know what she really taught of my words ensuring all about my sisters wedding and things like that whan i hawe a whole wadrobe full of ballgowns and the laceboxes in front of my sewingmachines, it isn't exactly much menswaer in them except from my workwear but they are unisex those days...   

[J. Wilhelm]

#Like the Mary Ellen Carter Rise Again! Rise Again#

So I've decided to conduct my semi-usual rite of technomancy just to maybe help me reach out and find some other queer people outside my usual haunting ground of Tumblr...

For context, some time in the last year or so I actually recognised and accepted myself as a bi/panromantic asexual, and I'm interested in playing around with gender presentation in my personal life (although I'm still trying to get confident doing it in public). I'm still not out to my family (despite being openly ace on my social media) for *reasons* but it was nice having some openly queer experiences at the asylum last year.

Good show! - I had written a long paragraph, but I self censored because it was too negative and self-centered of my part, and detracted from congratulating you on your self acceptance.  God knows it's particularly difficult as of late!

Congrats! 
I am not out to my family either about my gender identity, but my yongest brother did figure it out anyway, and i long time suspected that he did but newer said anything about it, it is not that i don't think my parent would accept it, i honestly think they allredy figured it out on their own, it's just... hard to talk about this type of things in generaly for me so i fully understand why it is not the absolute first thing everybody does when coming out, i did came out on the "internet" long time ago when i was a student and i hawe always been  open with it on the internet (exacept for facebook where my parents are), but well, i assume everybody know that now i forgot to hide my log whan i payed a wisit to the local LGBTQ site and wrote a short note avbout gender identity there) ever since, but ya, it is what it is... My mother did find my dresses, and i don't know what she really taught of my words ensuring all about my sisters wedding and things like that whan i hawe a whole wadrobe full of ballgowns and the laceboxes in front of my sewingmachines, it isn't exactly much menswaer in them except from my workwear but they are unisex those days...   

Well, I got to hand it to you. I've never had dresses in my closet as a kid, let alone sewing machines (plural) and closet-fulls of ballgowns!  . It was hard enough just to hide the little I had.

[mizzarrogh]

I honestly feel pretty alone with that...   
I don't think sexual preferenses has much to do with gender identity to be very honest, at least i don't think so, i think acceptance of other people has more to do with being openminded and perception to actual feelings one may or may not hawe, my very first time here on the forum i felt a bit owerwhelmed by how warm and welcome the air here felt compared to most other places i used to wisit related to my other interests at the time, back then even in the lgbtq comunities it could be quite harsh if one did not fit into the standard gender normatives when i was younger even if dressing up and sceneplay for show where accepted where i live, for me it has always been the other way around, it does not realy matter which type of carracter i play on stage as long as i like to give it a try i go all in for the carracter , but one where per default kind  of expected to step back into a CIS normative role in private, which i honestly could't do and being honest, that part has always being a play for me. 

[J. Wilhelm]

I honestly feel pretty alone with that...   
I don't think sexual preferenses has much to do with gender identity to be very honest, at least i don't think so, i think acceptance of other people has more..... SNIP

I'm not an expert, but it's my understanding that modern gender theory says that sexual attraction and gender are independent. I'm basically a hetero non binary individual, for example. There were indications of this independence all the way back to the sex research performed during the mid 20th century. But one thing is to state it that's it's a fact for for a limited number of people that it's possible to see those who have one type of sexuality and another type of gender expression, and another thing to actually see it in "large" scale among the new generations. It's the evolution of societal norms in the post medieval European culture. In other ancient eras (Medieval Japanese, Ancient Greece, Egypt, etc.) this wasn't so surprising.

Out in the open in modern times, independent gender expression is brand new to the public. Perhaps that's why we're seeing such a backlash in the US and UK. I only saw it personally after 2010, practically speaking. Prior to that there was an increased awareness in society around physical transition, between 2000-2010, say (eg Andrej/Andreja Pejic). And back in the 80s you only saw "cross-dressers," "gay/homosexual" people (always shown as cisgender), and every once in a while an odd "transexual" as a curiosity in a documentary or TV show. In reality scientists were looking at this all the way back into the 1920s.

The post 2010 "Gender Revolution" as National Geographic put it, had a lot to do with me coming out. I just thought I was an oddity when I was young.

[mizzarrogh]

Yes, Absolutely! I really could not had said that better my self! 

[SolarCenturion]

I must be transparent and admit my failings that in my youth I was horrendously homophobic. I got better. In brief, when I was still a young man my best friend and punk "mentor" came out. I had to make a choice whether I valued friendship or ignorance more. I chose friendship. Over the years I have openly embraced and supported friends of all walks.

recently, I encountered a video on instagram. A man was dressed like a pre-revolution French aristocrat. Powdered wig, full make-up, quite marvelous outfit. He offered a few pleasant greetings and then said... "Oh, are you still here? Congratulations, you're gay"!

I have to say it stopped me short and made me ask questions. Ultimately it doesn't matter. I found my person... that person happens to be female and we got married and produced children and I'm quite happy in my situation.

But just maybe I'm not as "straight" as I once thought.

[SeVeNeVeS]

I have allways followed my parents attitude........ people are just people no matter thier dress, colour or sexuality.......good and bad deeds can be done by all.......

Considering thier generation, pretty modern (born around the 30s when bigotry and racism etc was rife)

I was moulded by 2 outstanding people.

I am definitly straight tho'  The idea of a fandango with another mans trouser treasures just don't float my boat......

[mizzarrogh]

To be very honest, i am not either into physical samesex relationship (i don't know if it is age related, but it's just how it is), but maybe on the emotional plane if the person just was the right one.
It seem to be that way for a lot of animal species too, at least the ones i studied on my fathers farm, homosexuality seem to be quite evenly dstributed among animals as well, but not all are into thje physical thing even if they seem to like same sex relationship, they are pretty much like us i assume, we hawe all from straight to gay people and everything in between and non of them are right or wrong in my opinion, it is just the wonder of mother nature. 

I believe it is the same thing with gender identity, and it is probably the same for animals but in a more natural and relaxed way i believe, but gender identity is not nessesary connected to sexual or emotional preferenses it is a thing of it's own and we hawe all kinds here too, from regular CIS people to transgender people and anything in between, one can wear dresscodes for the opposite gender on daily basis but still being regular CIS gender and one can wear just normal cloathes but still being transgender or bi gender inside, it is not the look of our coats of fabric and makup that deffine us for what we are!  Mother nature is wonderful! <3

[rovingjack]

got into a disagreement in an online asexual community, because some of them are cheering on and saying they are going to try doing what somebody posted about... Posting the chat logs of chatting to a guy who is looking to connect and doesn't know they are asexual, and then telling them they will send some sexy pics, and then sending a broken image message over and over while the guy thinks something wrong with the phone or the connection and thinking you're trying several times to share an image with him and them you give up and leave him sstressed... and then running to share that with hundreds of other asexuals.

Like, F U. That's a disgusting way to treat somebody. I'm almost certain that's bullying somebody for having different sexual orientation than you. @$$hole. Not only is it a $#itty way to treat him, but it's a stain on the asexual community that you and others laughing it up in the post are choosing that as how people think about us.

[mizzarrogh]

That sound really awful to me! The whole thing of bulliying one singel person in group is in my opinion, regardless of where it takes place. 
I am honetsly leaning to the assexual side my self, but other people has the same rigt as i and anyone else to hawe their own private life in my opinion, at least it is the way it should be.

[rovingjack]

had a grumpy old rainbow moment the other day.

saw somebody posting about how asexuals can get horny, want to engage in sex, and enjoy sex, and people shouldn't question their asexuality...

I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time seeing how someone can want sex, have it frequently, and enjoy it... and then claim to be asexual. I get that asexual is not the same as celibate, and my little ace brain supports you having and enjoying a healthy and safe sex life, and supports those whose creative expressions involve your sexual expression too... but my experience of asexuality, and even my understanding of it, is that having sex just isn't that interesting to us. rather like some people can be uninterested in playing sports, watching it, or otherwise having sports in their lives, without hating sports or thinking poorly of those who enjoy it. one can even 'humor' somebody else who seeks to engage with them in sporting. It's not traumatic or negative, it's just not something that they would engage in when not doing it for somebody else they care about...

seems a bit at odds with this redefining of the term to mean ... whatever a horny, sexually active and loving it, asexual is.

kids these days. harumph.

[Sir Henry]

had a grumpy old rainbow moment the other day.

saw somebody posting about how asexuals can get horny, want to engage in sex, and enjoy sex, and people shouldn't question their asexuality...

I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time seeing how someone can want sex, have it frequently, and enjoy it... and then claim to be asexual. I get that asexual is not the same as celibate, and my little ace brain supports you having and enjoying a healthy and safe sex life, and supports those whose creative expressions involve your sexual expression too... but my experience of asexuality, and even my understanding of it, is that having sex just isn't that interesting to us. rather like some people can be uninterested in playing sports, watching it, or otherwise having sports in their lives, without hating sports or thinking poorly of those who enjoy it. one can even 'humor' somebody else who seeks to engage with them in sporting. It's not traumatic or negative, it's just not something that they would engage in when not doing it for somebody else they care about...

seems a bit at odds with this redefining of the term to mean ... whatever a horny, sexually active and loving it, asexual is.

kids these days. harumph.

Excellent analogy, as an asportive myself that makes total sense.

And I totally agree with you, the label and the behaviour do seem at odds with each other - do they describe different aspects of a person's character these days? Being asocial makes it hard to keep up with evolving social mores.

[J. Wilhelm]

had a grumpy old rainbow moment the other day.

saw somebody posting about how asexuals can get horny, want to engage in sex, and enjoy sex, and people shouldn't question their asexuality...

I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time seeing how someone can want sex, have it frequently, and enjoy it... and then claim to be asexual. I get that asexual is not the same as celibate, and my little ace brain supports you having and enjoying a healthy and safe sex life, and supports those whose creative expressions involve your sexual expression too... but my experience of asexuality, and even my understanding of it, is that having sex just isn't that interesting to us. rather like some people can be uninterested in playing sports, watching it, or otherwise having sports in their lives, without hating sports or thinking poorly of those who enjoy it. one can even 'humor' somebody else who seeks to engage with them in sporting. It's not traumatic or negative, it's just not something that they would engage in when not doing it for somebody else they care about...

seems a bit at odds with this redefining of the term to mean ... whatever a horny, sexually active and loving it, asexual is.

kids these days. harumph.

Excellent analogy, as an asportive myself that makes total sense.

And I totally agree with you, the label and the behaviour do seem at odds with each other - do they describe different aspects of a person's character these days? Being asocial makes it hard to keep up with evolving social mores.

The problem from my perspective is that this is as much a revolution in the sense of biological and psychological self acceptance, as much as it is an ideological social revolution.  Time Magazine pinned it best by calling it "a Gender Revolution." The nomenclature keeps changing, and because younger generations always perceive the passage of time differently and seek to develop their own language, now you have a disconnect between older and younger generations in the queer community as a whole.

My gen-divide moment came earlier this month when a prospective landlord out of the blue* asked me if "I was gay." You see without me inquiring about it he volunteered that he was an older gentleman looking for a tenant who wouldn't have a problem with him being gay. When I told him I was "gender fluid, you're safe with me," he swiftly replied "I don't know what that is. Are you asexual?". Needless to say it needed a long, difficult explanation that he didn't even have the time to hear. I didn't get the room. It didn't help that he was technologically illiterate (he was using a FAX machine that couldn't receive my smartphone ID, so he wouldn't answer my calls). But the thing that struck me is that he'd be so wary.

*(I'm not effeminate in my speech and there's no way he would suspect anything about me over the phone, so he asked the question as a filter for prospective tenants). In modern times you no longer ask that question. It's not polite, and no one should have a problem with other' gender/sex issues - unless you're are one of the newfangled political "time travelers" as I call them).

In contrast, I've lived for 9 years in a house with two perfectly cisgender males who didn't ask and never cared that I was gender fluid. They found out  and just took it for granted and only asked a few questions and at nopoint  were they bothered by it.  Naturally, it was crucial that they be liberal minded, but other than that they're just two regular blokes treating me like another with just the caveat that I bend the gender.

For most younger people it's not a big deal, but in contrast, one of the same roommates in mid 50s, one year younger than me, had a very hard time not offending a younger transgender co-worker in their 20s, because my roommate  didn't understand the correct nomenclature and protocols (pronouns, etc.). My roommate, being very liberal minded and open was deeply hurt that he was being pegged as "intolerant" when in fact it was just "lost in the translation."

Many of the classifications for the LGBTQ+ are ad-hoc social science concepts that easily vary from one decade to the next. The concepts are an expansion over the science developed in the mid century by the likes of Kinsey (gender spectrum), but psychology and I dare say medicine all struggle to keep up with the social changes. There are no (as far as I can see) universal scientific standards for the nomenclature, unless you have a PhD on the subject and you can correct me, and those who seek to express their sex and gender identities are left to interpret it themselves as they can. This can backfire, and arguably has already in a very severe way backfired on the LGBTQ+ community in various countries.

Literally it's lack of standards and generational miscommunication.